DAMIAN: Our friend Dr Maximilian Theodore Siegfried de Bryn proved resilient to much of the culture and fashion of the 1960s but what are the chances of him succumbing to disco fever during the new decade?
JAMES: Well, I really can’t see Max going full Saturday Night Fever, but there are a few nods to 70s fashions starting to appear. Watching some of the news footage and TV shows from the early 70s, I noticed that everyone seemed to have long hair. Even serious politicians like Edward Heath had pretty impressive sideburns, so I did make a conscious effort to grow my hair. I told Russell I was aiming for a Rodney Bewes style bouffant. Viewers of Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads will understand.
The wonderful ‘Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads’ (1973-74) with James Bolam and Rodney Bewes (right)
I don’t think we are going to see Max strutting his stuff at the local disco, but there are hints in past episodes that he enjoys popular culture, in particular the Eurovision Song Contest, so I could imagine him happily tapping his feet to Mary Hopkin and Clodagh Rogers.
DAMIAN: What do you personally remember of the 70s; any key historic social, political or cultural moments that defined the decade for you?
JAMES: I was interested to read up on some social history about the early 70s before we started filming. It was certainly a time of much unrest and political upheaval, I mean, its incredible to think of the three-day-week happening today.
I was born in 1976, so my memories of the 70s are pretty vague, but I do remember some of the TV from that time, Tom Baker as Doctor Who, and Larry Grayson’s Generation Game. And Butterscotch Angel Delight was a culinary favourite. We moved house, and that was during the week of the 1979 election, so I guess that was a memory of quite an important political event.
EXT. MAX’S HOUSE – DAY
ENDEAVOUR on the doorstop. MAX opens the door — wearing a cook’s apron, and with a knife in hand, he looks as if he’s just stepped out of his mortuary.
MAX: (re: the knife) Nothing sinister. I was just getting a seed cake out of the oven.
PYLON (S6:E1)
DAMIAN: I was disappointed it wasn’t a rather large Raspberry Royale! Are you yourself fond of seed cake?
JAMES: I have to confess, I don’t think I’ve ever actually eaten seed cake. I am quite partial to date and apple flapjack. And Raspberry Royale is always a winner!
DAMIAN: And what about a Whisky Mac?
JAMES: I’ve been teetotal for years, but I’m sure Max enjoys a tipple, Whisky Mac, a few bottles of wine over meals, and gin and tonics down the pub.
DAMIAN: I’ve been asking Russ why we can’t see more of the good doctor’s home and personal life for years, so, like me, you must have been delighted to see Max’s house in the script?
JAMES: Oh yes, I was!
DAMIAN: And albeit only his doorstep and garden thus far, is it how you imagined Max’s home to be?
JAMES: I always had an idea that Max lived somewhere peaceful and aesthetically pleasing, that offered sanctuary, so when I saw the cottage and the beautiful location, I thought it was just wonderful.
EXT. GARDEN/MAX’S HOUSE – DAY
A trug and a kneeler by well-tended flowerneds. Birdsong and the hum of drowsy bees. ENDEAVOUR amidst the floribunda – a long drink in hand. MAX comes out bearing a freshly baked seed cake, which he pops on the table.
MAX: Have to give it half an hour to cool. Well – this is a first. (re: drinks) Splash more?
ENDEAVOUR returns to table – MAX knocks up a Whisky Mac – scotch and ginger wine over ice.
ENDEAVOUR: Been here long?
MAX: Eight years? Yes. Eight years. Don’t know what I’d do without it, to be honest. How d’you know where I live, by the way?
ENDEAVOUR: You’re in the book. (re: the house and garden) Nice.
MAX: I’m fighting a war of attrition with the greenfly over the tea-roses. Not very successfully, it must be said. But, yes – as a spot I’m rather fond. (a moment)Something has to be lovely, doesn’t it?
DAMIAN: Don’t you think that both the passion for baking and his love of gardening was a great insight into how Max manages to keep his work and personal life at a safe distance?
JAMES: I loved playing those scenes. They were written so beautifully, and I think the niceties that Max has cultivated in his home life are encapsulated in that line, ’Something has to be lovely, doesn’t it?’
DAMIAN: Later in the scene, Max says that ‘I shan’t flatter myself it’s altogether a social call…’ and as we discussed in our first interview, Max and Endeavour have much more in common with each other than many of his other associates and are both on the same cultural and intellectual wavelength. So, isn’t it a pity they don’t socialise more and why do you think that is?
JAMES: I am sure work permitting, they do socialise. And more so, as they get to know each other over the years. It would be nice to see them enjoying a few drinks and a chat down the pub.
DAMIAN: The following is the how the scene originally ended in the script but was unfortunately cut:
ENDEAVOUR takes his leave…
ENDEAVOUR: Thanks.
MAX: Any time. (a moment) Look, I’ve got to ask. What are you doing? Stuck out in the middle of nowhere?
ENDEAVOUR: Minding my business, mostly.
MAX: Are you? It was a bad go with George Fancy. Bad for everyone. The break up of Cowley on top of it. (off Endeavour) Somebody’s got to rally the troops.
ENDEAVOUR: But not me. Not me. Not this time. So, don’t ask.
MAX: They’re broken, Morse. I can put bodies back together again – but hearts..?
ENDEAVOUR: There’s not enough vinegar and brown paper left, Max. Not to fix us both. I can’t do it.
MAX: Then all really is lost.
DAMIAN: I asked Russ about this scene and he told me he thought of Max as acting as Jiminy Cricket to Endeavour’s little wooden boy. What are your thoughts on this and do you, like the other members of the principal cast that I’ve interviewed, find it frustrating that many precious scenes with so much insight are often cut?
JAMES: Jiminy Cricket? I like that!! Yes, I do remember that scene and I thought there was a lovely poignancy in those lines. It’s a shame it was cut but there are always going to be limitations with screen time, and storyline takes priority. You can’t take it personally, its all part of the process.
DAMIAN: And speaking of scenes getting cut – shall we dance?
INT. MORTUARY – NIGHT 5
MAX working – swabbing down the slab. Humming a happy hum. Footsteps off – JAGO together with GOG and MAGOG [McGyffin’s heavies] – who are in poor CID mufti.
JAGO: Evening, Doc. Got a request from the Yard to transfer this Binks body to London.
MAX: Hollis Binks?
JAGO: That’s him, aye.
MAX: I assume you’ve got your Home Office 127 (b) chitty – which authorises transfer from my keeping.
JAGO: Oh, yeh, Doc.
MAX: In triplicate and counter-signed by a magistrate?
JAGO: It’s all in order. (the penny drops) There is no 127 (b) chitty, is there? Doesn’t exist.
MAX: Alas. (a nod to GOG and MAGOG’s footwear) And if those muddy boots have ever seen Hendon, then I’m Carmen Miranda.
MAX takes up a blade from his tray.
MAX: (CONT’D) What does exist, however, is a Number Four scalpel and a lifetime’s experience of wielding it. So. Shall we dance?
DEGUELLO (S6:E4)
DAMIAN: It’s such a shame that this was cut because I would have loved to have seen Max “dance”.
JAMES: Yes, I remember that scene, I thought Richard Riddell was terrific as DS Jago, he brought a real menace to that role, so I was looking forward to squaring up to him in the mortuary. I remember there were a few changes on that script, and sadly it was cut before we started shooting.
DAMIAN: Again though, isn’t it scenes like this that reveal different layers to your character as I never would imagine Max to be quite so brave as to stand up to three bad guys?
JAMES: Oh, I don’t know about that, I think that underneath that sanguine exterior there is real moral fibre and a very steely resolve. His job requires a strength of character, and I don’t think Max would go down without a fight.
INT. MAX’S CLUB – DAY
MAX waiting. BRIGHT makes his way through the crowd. MAX stands to greet him.
MAX: Chief Superintendent.
BRIGHT: Doctor. It’s very good of you to meet me.
MAX: Not at all. What may I get for you?
BRIGHT: Oh – er… A brandy, I think.
MAX attracts the attention of a passing waiter.
MAX: Albert. A brandy, if you would.
WAITER heads off.
MAX: (CONT’D) They do quite a decent spot of supper.
BRIGHT: Excellent. Excellent. I’m sure.
MAX: Now – how may I be of service?
BRIGHT: I may rely on your discretion. As a medical man.
MAX: Always. Please. Speak freely.
BRIGHT: My wife has been diagnosed with cancer of the lungs. Inoperable, according to the specialist. She’s scolded me for an optimistic fool, but I wonder if you might recommend anyone from whom one could seek… a second opinion.
MAX: Well, there’s no better man in England than Sir Julian Fitzalan. I know him slightly and would be happy… (off BRIGHT’S reaction) Chief Superintendent?
BRIGHT: Julian is my wife’s specialist…
CONFECTION (S6:E3)
DAMIAN: I think this is one of my favourite scenes from the last or any series; written and performed to perfection.
JAMES: I’m so glad you enjoyed that scene, I thought it was beautifully written too, and working with Anton was a delight. Not only is he kind, witty, and wise, he has a wonderful generosity of spirit, which I think is priceless for an actor. And Leanne Welham directed that scene with such sensitivity. When you have days like that, you learn so much, and it really is an absolute privilege.
DAMIAN: The audience can infer that he doesn’t socialise with Bright any more than he does with Endeavour. Has Max got any friends to go out with?
JAMES: I am sure he has a varied social life, I imagine he plays Bridge and goes to concerts but as for real friendships, they are few in number. I imagine he would enjoy a platonic friendship with Dorothea, I could see them making regular trips to the Oxford Playhouse and enjoying saucy jokes and several large gins in the pub.
DAMIAN: You said in our first interview that ‘there is an eccentricity to Max, and a flamboyant persona, which is probably a useful device for steering clear of emotional attachments’. Would you say this extends to, and excludes, any sort of love life?
JAMES: Yes, I think so. There is no mention of a romantic partner and he lives alone. There was a scene in a previous film where Max was asked about the possibility of a recently discovered fatality being suicide, and I remember Max’s line, ‘Love’s very popular. The want of it. A broken heart.’ There was a lovely quote from Housman, and there was a real poignancy to that scene. I wondered instinctively if Max had perhaps had a brief love affair a few years previously which had ended unhappily.
ENDEAVOUR: Twenty-seven. What a waste.
MAX: Oh, he’ll have had his reasons, I expect. Love’s very popular. The want of it. A broken-heart.
MAX zips the remains into a rubber shroud — nods the MORTUARY MEN to cart the body off on a stretcher.
ENDEAVOUR: Where do you stand with all that?
MAX: Suicide?
ENDEAVOUR: Love.
MAX: Early in the day for metaphysics, isn’t it?
MAX holds ENDEAVOUR’s gaze a life-time long.
ENDEAVOUR: I’m sorry, it’s none of my business.
ENDEAVOUR looks upstream – embarrassed. MAX’s eye is set on some far distant country where falls not hail…
MAX: ‘And one was fond of me: and all are slain.’
ENDEAVOUR’s tongue – never far from Housman – finds the closing line.
ENDEAVOUR: ‘Ask me no more, for fear I should reply.’
MAX – a wry smile.
GAME (S4:E1)
DAMIAN: You also mentioned that both you and Colin Dexter hail from Stamford in Lincolnshire and you later discovered that there was a surgeon operating at Stamford Hospital around the 1950s named Doctor Du Bruyn. Did you ever find out more about him and if he was the inspiration for Max?
JAMES: I found out quite bit of information about Doctor Du Bruyn. Apparently Max was based on him and also a consultant who worked in Peterborough. As I mentioned before, Doctor Du Bruyn was very well known in Stamford, and those who remember him, say he was much respected and well liked. I even have a photo of him in a book called Stamford Memories.
DAMIAN: And finally, do you still learn lines in your local cemetery?
JAMES: Of course! Preparation is everything in the acting game, so as soon as the script comes in, I’m straight down to that cemetery and learning the lines.
DAMIAN: James, thank you very much indeed.
JAMES: Thanks Damian.
NOTE TO THE READER: James told me during our first interview that he treated himself to a nice pudding from Marks and Spencer when he landed the part of Max. Curious ever since, James finally revealed to me at the previous Endeavour unit base that the pudding was a rather large Raspberry Royale!
BRIGHT: When I arrived here three years ago, I had such high hopes. What an ignominious end I have led you to. I shall resign, of course.
THURSDAY: Sir…
BRIGHT: I failed him. I failed my men. The station gone. My brightest and best cast to the four winds. And all is brought to ruin.
Cometh the hour. The one true friend…
STRANGE: Bollocks to that.
THURSDAY: Sergeant…
STRANGE: No, sir. I won’t hear it. We might be down, but we’re not out. Not yet. Not by a long chalk. I’ll be damned if this is how it ends. We’ll have justice for him, sir. Whatever it takes.
THURSDAY: Jim’s right, sir. They can call us Thames Valley till the cows come home, but wherever we wash up, we’re City men – each one of us. To our boots. To the last.
BRIGHT: So few.
ENDEAVOUR: Enough to give him justice.
THURSDAY: We’ll find the bastard, sir.
BRIGHT: Your word on it.
THURSDAY: My oath.
STRANGE: And mine.
They look to ENDEAVOUR
ENDEAVOUR: For George
ICARUS (S5:E6)
DAMIAN: Pretty rousing stuff but I never quite understood what Russ meant by ‘Cometh the hour. The onetrue friend…’ when I first read the script and why Strange was the one true friend but, of course, I certainly do now. Endeavour was almost impotent with denial and Thursday spent most of the last series edging slowly towards the dark side. So, not only was Strange the one true friend, but to what extent might he also be described as the one true hero of series 6?
SEAN: He certainly stepped up to the plate. He’d be extremely red faced at being described as a hero though.
Double doors give on to a narrow vestibule/hall – a hard bench against a wall. Facing the open doors – a drop-leaf counter beyond which, the suggestion of a back room, from whence OPERATIC MUSIC floods the building.
ANGLE – SERVICE BELL on the counter. Beyond – out of focus – a UNIFORM sits with his back towards us, typing at a desk.
A hand comes down on the Service bell.
VISTOR (Off-screen): Shop!
UNIFORM rises – comes to the counter, and we recognise – ENDEAVOUR in full Thames Valley blues – three stripes on his sleeve. And sporting a moustache. His visitor – STRANGE – a touch of Brylcreem. Three-piece suit. Chelsea Boots.
STRANGE: This is where you’ve been keeping yourself, is it?
ENDEAVOUR’S not going to make this easy. A distance has fallen between them. Things unsaid, and for too long.
PYLON (S6:E1)
DAMIAN: Brylcreem, three-piece suit and Chelsea boots! – whatever happened to those rather fetching tank-tops?
SEAN: Being a style icon requires constant innovation and evolution. Strange and I have shown the world the many faces of the humble tank-top. It was time to move on!
STRANGE: We’re still no nearer to finding who did for George.
ENDEAVOUR: ‘We’? I’m here. You’re there. He’s [Thursday] at Castle Gate. Mister Bright at Traffic. There isn’t a we – not any more – nor likely to be.
STRANGE: We said…
ENDEAVOUR: You said. I don’t blame you. Heat of the moment. Like the last day of school. Solemn oaths and giddy declarations. ‘We happy few…’
STRANGE: I meant it.
ENDEAVOUR: I’m sure. But that’s not how it turned out. It’s never how these things turn out.
WIDE – two old friends, coffee table between them – the width of an ocean.
PYLON (S6:E1)
DAMIAN: I thought these and similar scenes in PYLON and throughout series 6 were beautifully written and, indeed, performed. He might not be as smart as Endeavour, but there’s no one more loyal and dependable when the chips are down than our Strange. Not only is he appalled by Endeavour’s attitude, but isn’t Strange also a little confused by it as well?
SEAN: The shock, and it was an extreme shock let us not forget, has affected them very differently. They are both grieving. Strange is using it as fuel whilst Morse uses it to build a wall around himself. It’s definitely confusing.
DAMIAN: Despite this, Strange continues to help Endeavour and even lies to ACC Bottoms towards the end of the film telling him that Endeavour belongs to one of the College Lodges in order to secure the transfer to Castle Gate. Why exactly does he do this; is it purely out of friendship or did he think Endeavour is more likely to pursue the truth about Fancy’s death if he’s stationed there?
SEAN: Six of one, half a dozen of the other. A less isolated Morse could prove to be more malleable.
DAMIAN: Also in PYLON, Endeavour pleads, ‘Look, you’re doing alright. Friends at the Lodge. Going places. You’re on the up. Just let it go.’ but Strange replies with ‘I can’t. I can’t’. Seemingly more than anyone else, why do you think Strange is so haunted by Fancy’s death?
SEAN: First and foremost, Strange cared for George. They were friends. For there to be no justice, no closure, is simply unbearable. His only way to emotionally deal with it is to make sure the culprit pays for what they did.
ENDEAVOUR: Who else knows about this?
STRANGE: So far – just us.
BRIGHT: Dr.deBryn was good enough to notify me and Detective Sergeant Strange first. I think – for the moment at least – such information should be contained amongst former City officers.
ENDEAVOUR: We’re a man shy, then. Aren’t we?
Awkward looks from BRIGHT and STRANGE.
DEGUELLO (S6:E4)
DAMIAN: Albeit only temporarily, do you think the moral downfall of Thursday suggests that all bets are off now and anything is possible for the future of the show – I mean, is there a real sense of not knowing what to expect when you read the scripts for the first time?
SEAN: I think that has always been the case. Narratively, stylistically and tonally the show has always been quite daring. Thursday’s journey is certainly an example of that. Russ has written real people. Real people do unexpected things. I’m always excited to open up a new script and see what trouble everyone has been getting into.
ENDEAVOUR: I met someone. She’s got a kid. A boy. Five years old. It could be – I don’t know – something. (off STRANGE) Why not? Everybody else gets a shot – why should I be any different?
STRANGE: Because you are.
ENDEAVOUR: What if I don’t want to be? Isn’t that what it’s supposed to be about? Something to come home to.
STRANGE: I wouldn’t know. Some day. Maybe.
CONFECTION (S6:E3)
DAMIAN: I thought the characters of Bright and Strange really evolved in series 6 but I wonder if, considering we’re now well into the third and final act of Endeavour, if there’s anything you’d like to explore with Strange before the curtain falls – perhaps get a girlfriend considering he hasn’t been on a proper date since 1966?
SEAN: I’d like to see more of Strange the leader. The authority figure. Too busy for dates!
DAMIAN: I thought the series got a lot darker as it grew towards the end of the decade. Indeed, the fun and playfulness of scenes such as Strange playing the trombone and becoming one half of the odd couple when he shared a flat with Endeavour seem to be sadly long gone. Do you miss these aspects of Strange’s character from the good old days?
SEAN: I feel they are still a part of his character, just below the surface. I imagine the trombone is kept under his desk. For emergencies.
STRANGE: Back to the day-job, then. That was quite nice while it lasted. Bit like the good old days.
ENDEAVOUR: Which were they? Remind me.
PYLON (S6:E1)
DAMIAN: You told me in our first interview, ‘I’d like to think that Strange in the 1960s is very much trying to find himself. He is very sure of where he wants to go in the world but is still unsure of his footing within it.’ How do you see Strange in the 1970s?
SEAN: Harder. Tougher. Self assured. He’s his own man now.
Consoles with winking lights. The HERO of MOON RANGERS – square jawed MAJOR.ROCK RENTON with X1 the ANDROID and COLONEL CRATER, crusty old patriarch.
MAJOR RENTON: If only we could access Damian Michael Barcroft’s website from outer space. I wanted to read his interview with Stephen La Rivière about the making of the ‘Moon Rangers’ sequences for ‘Endeavour’.
Some electronic beeps — X1’s ‘VOICE’.
COLONEL CRATER: What did that box of wires and lights say?
MAJOR RENTON: X1 says if we can beam our signal off the asteroid, we might be able to find Barcroft’s Uniform Resource Locator.
COLONEL CRATER: His URL? Great Scott! It’s a billion to one-shot, but it might just work!
(Not quite as originally written – apologies to Russell Lewis)
CUT TO:
DAMIAN: Okay Steve – right, let’s go! Stephen, you’re a producer, director, writer, actor and, of course, a puppeteer best known for your work relating to Gerry and Sylvia Anderson’s Supermarionation style of filmmaking. However, you were born in the eighties so must have missed most of their really iconic shows?
STEPHEN: If we’re talking original transmission, then I missed all of them. However, there was a HUGE revival in the early 90s – and, indeed, again in the early 2000s. It always surprises me that so many people have forgotten about the revivals – which were in many ways more successful than the original transmissions. The Tracy Island toy was the most sought after Christmas present for children both times. And it was quite a feat – perhaps one only really matched by the likes of Disney. Children were tuning into a show made three decades previously and accepting it as something of their time.
Having said that, I discovered the shows slightly ahead of their revival courtesy of my mother who bought a video of Thunderbirds from the bargain bin at Woolworths because she’d liked it when she was a child. And it seems to have been instant love.
DAMIAN: What shows do you remember watching as a kid that had their first broadcast in the eighties and how did they compare to favourites like Thunderbirds?
STEPHEN: On the basis of pure vanity, I’d like to point out that I’m sufficiently young enough to only have a couple of sketchy memories of the 80s as a whole! My memories of 80s shows were largely on repeat – and again they were shows like Thomas the Tank Engine that had artistic appeal that allowed them to live beyond their original audience. Thomas, incidentally, was produced by an ex-Thunderbirds model maker. Of my contemporary shows in the first half of the 90s… I watched stuff like Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles. Stuff that was entertaining enough at the time but no real longevity. I have nostalgia when I catch a glimpse of stuff like The RaggyDolls etc. But that’s it really. Nostalgia. I wouldn’t watch these shows for enjoyment now – whereas the Gerry and Sylvia shows of the 60s are endlessly watchable.
The early 90s was a golden time to discover great shows of the past. Friday evenings on BBC 2 – Thunderbirds, Stingray, Doctor Who, The Champions, The Man From Uncle. Plus Channel 4 showed The Avengers. In 1996 ITV did a repeat run of Upstairs Downstairs. Lots of kids discovered Doctor Who during this time too – and loved it even though it was in black and white. Great television and films will never die, so long as new audiences are given a chance to see them. That’s the sad thing about Netflix algorithms – it reduces your chance of exposure to stuff you wouldn’t normally look for. Also the idea that ‘modern kids won’t like that’ is a nonsense. Children have no preconceptions at first – they’ll either enjoy something or they won’t. In many ways, they’re less set in their ways than adults. Early exposure is the key though.
DAMIAN: Can you describe your childhood, for example, were there other kids you could share your passion for sci-fi and fantasy with or were you something of an outsider?
STEPHEN: I was an outsider. In more ways than just my interests. Even at the peak of the revival I didn’t know anyone who liked the same things I did. I managed to get one friend briefly into Doctor Who – but I suspect he was as interested in Doctor Who as I was in football during the brief moment I ‘got into’ it. I.E. to have a shared interest. Also, I wasn’t really a sci-fi fan. Probably more of an old television fan. By the age of ten I was as content watching stuff like Upstairs Downstairs or I Claudius – which I believe a certain mutual friend was in – as I was anything sci-fi. My principal loves though were the Supermarionation shows and Doctor Who. My interest in Who has waned over the years, but my Supermarionation love… well. Need I say more? Anyway, the short answer is: no. I didn’t have anyone to share my interests with!
Through Century 21 Films, Stephen co-produced two new documentaries about the stories ‘Four to Doomsday’ and ‘Earthshock’ for the blu-ray release of Peter Davison’s first season of Doctor Who
DAMIAN: Were there certain characters from any of the Anderson productions that you identified with or perhaps aspired to be like?
STEPHEN: Not really. I’ve never really looked for characters who were like me – and my family background and life has been so odd I’d be surprised if I ever saw a character I could directly identify with. Nor have I ever needed it. Television was a great way to find cool people unlike you! Did I aspire to be like a character – yes. I always wanted to be as cool as Scott Tracy. That voice! Thunderbird 1! Unfortunately, some things are out of range. I suppose if I started smoking 50 a day now I might manage to get a voice like Jeff’s.
There’s a message that underpins many of the Supermarionation shows about helping others – and I think that did leave a lasting impression. I was in Japan during the big earthquake in 2011 and I think part of my desire to stay and volunteer was partly driven by that childhood message relayed in almost everything the Andersons made.
DAMIAN: I’d like to talk a little bit about finding an audience or readership and how the internet has opened up so many opportunities. What can you tell me about your first experiences and how these led to the documentaries and books?
STEPHEN: Well, I’m guilty to an extent of piggy-backing on someone else’s audience. The background to my production life really begins with the fact that I had an awful time at school – which culminated in three kids trying to knife me. So I left when I was 15 without any qualifications. And that immediately reduces your options. The great thing though about being an outsider as a child is that it gives you lots of time to watch TV! And so whilst I lack any formal film education, by sheer osmosis I think I learnt a lot about how to make films. DVDs – and consequently DVD extras – were becoming a thing at that time. I found out that Terrahawks was being released on DVD and suggested to the releasing company that they do some interviews. Somehow that led to me making something for them – my first credit. And that led to making more behind the scenes programmes. So my audience was stolen really.
I got a bit disillusioned with production in 2008 so gave it up permanently. I wrote my book Filmed in Supermarionation the same year – and then in 2010 moved to Japan. So the last five years back in the world of film, television and advertising has been a bit of a surprise. I was tempted back on a one-off basis because I was offered the chance to turn Filmed in Supermarionation into a documentary. Which in turn has led into something of a Supermarionation revival when we produced three new episodes of Thunderbirds for the 50th anniversary of the show. And my goal with that was not just to celebrate the past but to bring a new audience to what I believe is an art-form that is both beautiful and bonkers!
DAMIAN: In addition to the old cliché about being in the right place at the right time, to what extent would you agree that there’s usually some sort of kind mentor along the journey that helps with making contacts or offers sage advice?
STEPHEN: The self-made man is a myth. We all get through life with the help – and sometimes hindrance – of others. When I did the Terrahawks DVD extras I was out of my depth really. Kevin Davies – who designed the Terrahawks titles – was by then a documentary maker. He immediately clocked that I could do with some help. But he never humiliated me – just gave me little tips about things I could do. So I owe him a lot. And along the way there have been lots of people who have helped me. Including some who I met because I wanted to interview them. Thunderbirds director David Elliott, playwright Rosemary Anne Sisson, actress Jean Marsh, composer Alexander Faris – people I went to meet once, who then helped me in immeasurable ways. Like everyone else I’d like to believe that I’m completely in control, but I think the most you can hope for in life is to be the captain of a boat in stormy seas. You push in certain directions, but the tempestuous waves of a million different factors – people, circumstances, chemicals in your brain – earthquakes! – take you to places you wouldn’t normally end up.
DAMIAN: Well, Russell Lewis, being a huge fan of the Anderson productions himself, greatly admired your work and told me that he pointed the Endeavour team to you. How did you first hear the news that they wanted you to film the Moon Rangers sequences and what was your reaction?
STEPHEN: I got an e-mail one day from the producer, Deanne Cunningham. ‘I’m the producer of an ITV drama. I am trying to contact Stephen La Rivière about an episode we are currently planning involving supermarionation style puppetry. It would be great to speak to you about this if you have the time.’
I can’t imagine not having the time for something like this!
It was very exciting. The life of a freelancer is so often waiting for the e-mail or letter that will start a new adventure. A couple of days passed before I found out what it was about – during which time I’d resigned myself to the fact that maybe someone else had got the job. Not that we have any competitors as such as it’s such a specialised field, but the thought is always there.
When I found out and read the script I was very excited, but also worried. Linking up with another crew can produce problems. We worked on an advert for the Halifax in 2016 and I made the error of allowing them to choose the crew who would work under our advice. The crew were perfectly accomplished – but they’d never made anything like this before. The original Supermarionation crew were very clever. And it’s very difficult to film these puppets and models if you don’t know all the tricks that were used by the original Century 21 Films team. The Halifax crew – not used to practical miniature work – couldn’t understand why they weren’t getting the right results with their usual techniques and consequently it was a very stressful experience. So I was worried about a repeat of that experience.
And so as to rob this story of any tension and drama – Endeavour was the best experience possible. Just wonderful people to work with.
DAMIAN: So, you’ve got the job. Can you take me through the process of how you prepared the Moon Rangers sequences including the design of the characters, their costumes, sets and vehicles?
STEPHEN: We all met in London for an initial meeting and discussed ideas and approaches. I think to begin with both sides preferred to have greater control – which is completely natural. Production is difficult, stressful and costly and you want to get people you can rely on. So naturally they favoured as many of their own crew and I favoured as many of mine. What we ended up with though was a collaboration that – I think – worked out perfectly. My initial preference was that we should build the main set as the scale is really important, but understandably Paul Cripps [production designer] wanted to do that. And taking on board our advice I think he came up with something fantastic. It looks great on camera, whilst having the right sort of aesthetic.
On the flip side, Paul originally planned to do the puppets, but it made more sense for us to build them as our puppet makers are the experts in this particular style of marionette and we wanted to ensure everything worked as we needed. Though, having said that, we still managed to have a mechanical malfunction on the day that nearly drove me to a nervous breakdown. Which is something else I’d like to praise the Endeavour team for. I warned them that these puppets are very temperamental and reshoot time would be essential if needed. All of that was taken into consideration – which makes the whole experience so much easier.
So Paul designed the main puppet set – which matched aesthetically what I really wanted to go for. Even though the episode was set in 1969, I felt that Russell has perfectly caught in the dialogue the essence of Fireball XL5 and Stingray – which had that sort of weird late 50s / early 60s hybrid look.
Rock Renton and below: Steve Zodiac (Fireball XL5), Troy Tempest (Stingray) and Scott Tracy (Thunderbirds)
Paul also gave us sketches as to how he envisaged the characters. Rock Renton was made specially for the show by top sculptor Stephen Mansfield who sculpts all our new characters. Stephen took Paul’s design as a starting point and then translated that into the pre-set proportions of a Supermarionation puppet whilst adding a few influences from the original characters. I was really happy with the look of Rock Renton – he seemed to embody Steve Zodiac, Troy Tempest and Scott Tracy somehow. Once the sculpt was done and approved puppet maker Barry Davies built the puppet and installed all the mechanisms.
X1
The X1 Robot was again built following Paul’s initial design – but with slight changes that occurred as a result of using ordinary household objects. The head, for instance, is a paint pot! He was built by our effects team of Toby Chamberlain and Hilton Fitzsimmons and operated by Elliot Pavelin.
Luna Colonel Crater
Luna and Colonel Crater followed Paul’s ideas more by chance than design in that we already had puppets that looked right. Paul wanted Colonel Crater to look like Morse creator Colin Dexter. We agreed that an existing puppet – who we’d had built for the new Thunderbirds episodes we’d made in 2015 – again sculpted by Stephen Mansfield – looked the part. Because of the pre-determined proportions of the earlier Supermarionation puppets, you can never really do an exact copy – so you aim to capture the essence. And the puppet previously known as Dawkins seemed just right for the job.
Luna was a previously unused puppet – sculpted for (and deleted from) the Halifax advert by Marina and Lady Penelope creator Mary Turner. Given Luna is an homage to Marina it seemed almost serendipitous that we could provide a puppet sculpted by the same person.
Paul also included some costume sketches. The costumes were made by our costume lady, Liz Comstock-Smith. She followed Paul’s design for the main uniform, whilst the final look of Luna was influenced by some rather fabulous flowing fabric Liz found. Supermarionation is a very organic process – whatever you set out to do morphs across the different elements of production. Not just because of the creative whims of the team – but because the puppets are so specific in what they require. In the case of the costumes, the fabric and construction has to be perfect to allow the puppet to move freely.
On the special effects front, the rocket was kit-bashed by Hilton Fitzsimmons who built two models – just in case we needed to blow up two. Paul arranged the staging and drapes needed for the SFX shots – and had some rather nice moon craters built. The stage was dressed with sand for the drama shots – but we substituted that for other materials when it came to the effects shot itself for a better effect.
We were on set for a week in total. The drama sequences were shot on the Wednesday and Thursday – and then we took over the stage to shoot Moon Rangers. Both puppet and model sequences were shot on a vintage Mitchell on 35mm film by Boyd Skinner our expert DOP who knows all of the lighting and lensing requirements. Malcolm Smith came into do the pyrotechnics (which were very loud). Again, Malcolm is an expert in producing the right sort of explosions that work in miniature. He also has to plan out the timing of each shot precisely because we shoot at high speed. So a 5 second detonation is in fact only 1 second in real life.
The model shots were done in sections. The landing and initial detonation, the collapse, and then various shots of detonation – which had to culminated in the foam of the extinguisher in order to take us back into the main drama. I was very conscious that we were an elaborate, but small part of a big drama and tried to make sure as much as possible that our bits would integrate into the main action.
I can’t stress enough how much of a genuine collaborative effort this was. We were all in constant touch checking with each other that we were getting what we wanted. From my side, I wanted to be providing the show with what its production team wanted. From their side, they were respectful of making sure that I got the things I needed to make sure we ended up with an authentic looking, affectionate homage – not a badly made parody that cheapened the original shows.
I hope that what we ended up with is a true marriage between Russell’s written vision, Shaun’s directorial vision, Paul’s design vision and my vision of how to do new Supermarionation work that doesn’t harm the original shows, but brings a new audience. And given the reaction online – I think we succeeded. In the year since Apollo went out, we’ve been inundated with requests not just to bring Thunderbirds back, but to do full series of Moon Rangers!
Stephen with David Elliott and Mary Turner above them
DAMIAN: How did puppeteer Mary Turner and director David Elliott who both worked on the original Thunderbirds become involved?
STEPHEN: I’ve known Mary and David for the best part of 20 years – I first met them as a young fan wanting to know how the shows were made. Going to Mary for puppeteering seemed natural – not just because she was there, but because she understands television puppeteering. It needs to be subtle as the camera amplifies everything. She was joined by Géraldine Donaldson as the supervisor (she ensures that all the puppets are prepared, dressed, styled and working) and Elliot Pavelin – who worked as a lip-sync operator and puppeteer. Although to be honest we all do a bit of everything really. My co-producer Andrew T. Smith not only looks after the running of the whole operation, but puppeteers, lip-sync operates, sorts out camera problems. We all have to be all rounders!
As for David when we began production on the three anniversary specials of Thunderbirds, he asked if he could direct one. It hadn’t occurred me to ask because it’s a huge strain and he was 84. I hesitantly agreed and… he sat down in the chair and five decades fell away. It was like he’d never been away. He did some amazing work for us.
For Endeavour, I wanted to puppeteer too, and so it made sense to have David on set too. Originally it was to have a second pair of eyes focussed just on the action to make sure we were getting everything – but he’s so full of good ideas it can’t help but be a collaboration. So even though I got sole credit, it was actually both of us – some shots are his, some are mine. One of the shots was actually the idea of my co-producer, Andrew T. Smith. It really is a very collaborative process. If someone’s got a good idea we use it!
It wasn’t just David and Mary – David Graham, the voice of Parker, provided (uncredited) the voice of Colonel Crater. Mary and David Elliott are in their 80s, and David Graham is in his 90s – so I think I might have the oldest working film crew out there!
The dialogue was recorded at Hackenbacker in London. Nigel Heath gave us a fantastic 60s microphone set-up so we could get the authentic sound. Justin T. Lee provided – again uncredited – the Scott Tracy-esque voice of Rock Renton.
DAMIAN: What was Shaun Evans like to work with as an actor and a director?
STEPHEN: As I said earlier on, one of my great concerns about this was having a repeat of the Halifax experience – trying to work through another director. But Shaun said that I should direct the Moon Rangers bit as it was a specialised form of filmmaking. So my level of respect for him is huge. Not every filmmaker has the lack of ego to be able to say, ‘Actually, it would be better if we let this person do this bit’.
That’s not to say Shaun had no involvement – everything done was to service his show. But ultimately, this was one long special effects sequence involving specialised knowledge and it was fantastic that we were allowed to get on and do the things we needed to do.
A specialised sequence like this – in the middle of a big production with its down demands – could have been a nightmare to get right. But it was just a pleasure. Nearly two years on, I’m still surprised to be able to say that as it’s so unusual!
DAMIAN: Who gave the best performance – the puppets or the human actors?
STEPHEN: Given that Rock Renton broke down – mechanically, rather than mentally – for three hours on the shoot day, I’d say the actors. Definitely more reliable. Though, like many temperamental stars, I don’t think any of Rock’s problems showed up on screen.
I would like to highlight one puppet performance though that I loved – Colonel Crater collapsing. Mary Turner operated Crater and her comic timing reduced everyone to fits of laughter. Which on a stressful, complicated day is something we all needed!
DAMIAN: Russ visited the studios at Twickenham for two days and said that they were amongst the happiest he’s ever spent on the show. However, from your perspective, I wonder if having the writer there watching you perform was a little nerve-racking?
STEPHEN: I think many creatives suffer from Impostor Syndrome. The idea that you shouldn’t be there. So on that basis, I like keeping everyone away so I have time to fix the problems before anyone notices. And boy – do the puppets come with lots of problems. Paul Cripps suddenly wandered onto the set unexpectedly when we were having problems with Renton – and I wanted to die from shame. I mean, I know the puppets come with these problems – they either work beautifully, or they’re bastards. Even Gerry used to call them ‘little bastards’. But it worries me that to people who don’t do this on a daily basis that they think it’s incompetence, rather than the nature of this type of fiddly filmmaking.
I was delighted Russell could come down. Not least so I could express my admiration for the script which I think is genuinely very clever. In one minute it totally distills the essence of those shows. And it’s enormously quotable. Amongst my crew it’s easily the production we reference the most.
DAMIAN: You know, I think Russ actually found the experience very moving and not just because he’s a fan of Stingray, Thunderbirds and the other Anderson shows, but he told me that watching you work reminded him of when he was a kid making 8mm stop-motion films with Action Men. Essentially, as an artist, would you agree that you’re not only operating the puppets, but also gently holding people’s childhoods in your hands?
STEPHEN: Yes! Absolutely. And I’m very conscious of that in everything we do. We’re playing in a toy-box that deserves respect. My only intention with everything we do is that we tell the audience – new and old – that these shows were fantastic. Of everything we’ve done, I think Moon Rangers has done the most to promote that idea. We have big plans for Supermarionation – and Moon Rangers has really helped us on that path.
DAMIAN: Was it your idea for Russ to have the little cameo?
STEPHEN: Actually, I think it was Géraldine’s idea – our puppetry supervisor. The hand insert wasn’t in the script – but the script made quite a bit about the human sized props. So I thought it’d be fun to do a human hand sequence not least because everyone remembers them. But also, it would serve the main drama plot. As we were preparing for the shot Géraldine said, ‘Wouldn’t it be a nice idea to give Russ a cameo?’ So she went away and made a sleeve for him out of a bit of the remaining puppet costume material and he came onto the set to play Rock Renton. It’s a lovely touch. We were also able to film a bit of Russell on set with the puppets as we were at the end of the reel – hopefully a nice memento for him of the day.
Thinking about that day I feel so warm towards the experience. That’s the magic of these puppets – despite the frustrations of production – there is just a magic of stepping onto those sets and seeing the characters live.
DAMIAN: What’s next for you and Century 21?
STEPHEN: Stand by for action… We’ll be back. We just can’t say anything about it yet!
DAMIAN: Stephen, thank you very much indeed.
STEPHEN: No, thank you. I’m not blind to the fact we were 1 minute of a much-loved series. But as I’ve said to everyone else until their eyes glaze over, I loved the whole thing. Normally old work makes you wince – but I’m hugely proud of my tiny part in Endeavour.
INT. VENDING MACHINE AREA/NEW COWLEY POLICE STATION
BRIGHT at his solitary repast – nosing through a newspaper with an APOLLO HEADLINE. THURSDAY arrives.
THURSDAY: Giving the canteen a miss today, sir?
BRIGHT: I was just… uh… (re the Apollo headline) Extraordinary thing.
THURSDAY: Yes, it is. Hell of a thing. Brave as you like. I was a boy when Alcock and Brown crossed the Atlantic. Everybody said that couldn’t be done. Fifty years on, and it’s the moon.
BRIGHT: ‘Man’s reach’, Thursday.
DAMIAN: Russ, what do you remember of July 1969?
RUSS: My chief recollection is peering at a black and white TV and trying to make sense of the images thereon. Was the touchdown beamed back live – or is my mind playing tricks? The pictures were quite difficult to process for my young mind. Quite abstract. Oblique views of the lunar surface.
But there was a great air of excitement about it all. My maternal grandmother was as old as the century, and it’s mad to think her life encompassed both the Wright Brothers first powered flight, and then – sixty-six years later – she was still alive to watch men walk on the moon. Quite staggering. Having seen Alan Tracy do his thing in Thunderbird 3, one might have been a bit blasé about it, assuming that – ‘well, of course, the moon is nothing special. Thunderbird 3 goes there all the time.’
E/I. THE MOON/SOUNDSTAGE/HEAVISIDE STUDIOS
The surface of the moon. Pockmarked with craters. Buzz Aldrin’s ‘Magnificent desolation.’ The blast of deceleration rockets – and a spaceship descends to the surface.
The space-ship crashes in a tremendous explosion… A moment – and a couple of STAGEHANDS enter frame with fire extinguishers to put out the flames… WIDE – and we see the MOON is a model set.
DAMIAN: The second film of series 6, APOLLO, was something of a love letter to Gerry Anderson and the Supermarionation style of filmmaking. Can you tell me what shows like Thunderbirds and Stingray meant to you as a child?
RUSS: I guess, along with the films of Ray Harryhausen, they furnished my imagination. I would have watched them in black and white, I suppose – first time round. Like most of the country, not having a colour TV. But, yes, I was completely in thrall to the worlds created in each of those shows.
DAMIAN: Also, some of the puppets such as Lady Penelope and Marina were strangely alluring to young boys weren’t they?
RUSS: Marina, perhaps. Lady Penelope… not so much. As a child I found her rhotacism a bit off-putting. I was fascinated by the imagery in the end credits of Stingray – across the “Marina” theme. Exquisitely shot. These felt like images that could have come from a big budget, high production value movie. I don’t know if I’ve mentioned it before, but the mood and imagery for Pulp’s Hardcore video has been a bit of a touchstone across the last couple of Series — which in turn took its inspiration from a coffee table book called Still Life edited by Diane Keaton (yup!) and Marvin Heiferman. I’ve got a pretty battered copy, but it’s filled with stills and publicity shots from Hollywood movies between 1940 and ‘69. There’s something very strange and staged about those shots – oddly lifeless and artificial — and often sinister, in a kind of David Lynch/Twin Peaks way. There’s something about the kind of world that they’re trying to depict which rings utterly hollow. They’re what the mind of someone who has lived an unsophisticated life imagines the sophisticated life to be. Do you know what I mean? It’s like what children imagine a King’s life to be. Ice cream for breakfast, lunch and supper, delivered on silver salvers by periwigged flunkies in buckled shoes – illustrated by Quentin Blake.
And… this does get back to Marina and Lady Penelope, I promise you… In the UK, there was that same brittle Soho glamour abroad after the war. Telephone accents. Ruth Ellis. It’s there in Betjeman’s Song of a Nightclub Proprietress — that piss elegance that pretends to something it isn’t. Del Boy Trotter’s ‘Bonnet de douche’. That’s probably a bit unfair on Del Boy – but Hyacinth Bucket is close to the mark. And I think that’s certainly true of Lady Penelope. It’s a suburban imagining of the aristocracy. Ha! You remember that scene with Jane Fonda in Klute where she goes and monologues the fantasy of the old gentleman in the Garment Factory. He’s come from the old country, and the fantasy is all about Fonda’s trip to the gambling tables of Monte Carlo, it’s all dripping with Euro decadence and the ‘pagan’ feelings stirred in her by some older man in the casino. And it’s a fantastic scene – but again, it’s that level of pretence. It’s no accident Lady Penelope ends up in Monte in The Man from MI.5. And that’s there in the Marina montage as well. Candles melting in a Chianti bottle. A vision of glamour that most of us could only dream about in the UK. But it was bogus. Ersatz. Rank Charm – as they say.
DAMIAN: You visited filming at Twickenham studios for a couple of days and I believe the first was with Shaun directing the human actors. You’ve obviously known Shaun for a long time now but what he is like as a director?
RUSS: Thorough. Prepared.
DAMIAN: Did the two of you have any significant creative differences on this film?
RUSS: Not that I recall, specifically. But what goes on tour…
DAMIAN: Shaun’s first foray into directing was a couple of years ago now, do you think he always had ambitions to direct an episode of Endeavour and why do you think he wanted to direct this particular film?
RUSS: Well – he didn’t want to open the batting – first time out, and the only film available to him to direct was the second in the run.
DAMIAN: Have you ever thought of having a go behind the camera?
RUSS: I’m already insufferable enough.
DAMIAN: Not you, sir. The second day of filming at Twickenham involved the puppet sequences. Now, I’ve often tried to get you to pick a favourite child and you always refuse. However, you must have something of a special soft spot for this film?
RUSS: I enjoyed the puppets very much. Getting up close and personal with Stephen La Rivière’s wonders. His team is fantastic, and I could happily spend the rest of my days doing nothing but working with them. What I adored was that it took me back to making my own 8mm stop-motion films as a kid. Then – Action Men were my cast, brilliantly poseable for animation – but it was in essence ‘bringing one’s toys to life.’ And there was an element of that with the puppets and the vehicles. Obviously, compared to the budget they’d had on the commercials they’d done, we could offer nothing like the same resources — but, clearly, when they’d been doing their Thunderbirds at 50 films, I don’t think they were awash with money, which brings me to my point — they have retained a very healthy sense of make do and mend, and most importantly, the only thing that matters is what’s in the frame. Does it tick all the rules boxes? No. Does it work? Does it look fantastic? Absolutely. That chimed very happily with my approach to making things. I adore sleight of hand. The movie and TV magic. What you thought you saw, you did not see.
He and they have such a genuine reverence for the original way of doing things, and a touching affection for those who broke that ground first time around… Having David Elliot and Mary Turner on the floor – and seeing Mary manipulating the puppets from the ‘Bridge’ over the set, as she had done for Anderson nearly sixty years ago… For those of us to whom such a moment might mean something… It was extraordinarily moving.
DAMIAN: Is this why you chose this film to make your first and only onscreen appearance?
RUSS: First do no harm. It was Stephen’s idea. And it kind of fed back into the make do and mend approach. At first, I think, we’d built the cut to the human hand into the story – and explained it in dialogue as part of the plot. There was a lot more about guns and blanks and live rounds early on, as a way of explaining why more than one person would have tested positive for firearms residue. But there we are. I was always very conscious as a kid of the cut to the live human hand pulling a lever or pushing a switch – and I think I wrote about that in the stage directions. Geraldine – Stephen’s colleague at Century 21 Films – had an offcut of material left over from Renton and Crater’s costumes – literally, a fragment of cloth, perhaps with a bit of braiding, was it? – and I was sewn into that to create a bit of cuff. Just enough to deceive. The ONLY thing that matters is what’s in frame. And away I went. A career in hand modelling beckons… And not a moment too soon.
DAMIAN: Can you describe the atmosphere on set with Stephen La Rivière and Century 21 working their magic?
RUSS: Well, as I think I’ve mentioned, it meant a lot. To be on the floor with Stephen and his team, and of course David and Mary. Really was amongst the happiest days I’ve spent on the show. That the shoot took place during the heatwave merely added to the fun of it. The studio – with the lights blazing – was stifling. We were the Alec Guinness Bridge on the River Kwai ‘Sweatbox’ Re-Enactment Society. As the late, great Neil Innes said when I saw him play at the Marquee some forty years ago, ‘The sweat’s running down the cheeks of my arse like juice from a rhubarb tart.’ But if I could spend the rest of my days doing that… it would be no contest.
DAMIAN: You mention Barry Gray’s music in the script and his contribution to the Anderson productions can’t be overstated. Any particular favourite themes or songs?
RUSS: Stingray is sensational. And I’m very fond of Joe 90. The organ line is marvellous. I also like the vocal version of Captain Scarlet by The Spectrum – who supposedly performed it (or mimed to it) on The Golden Shot. I’d love to know if there was any truth in that. The vocalist to my ear always sounds like Ray Brooks – who narrated Mister Benn. Marina is a stone cold classic. The mighty Thunderbirds theme. But with a lot of these, it’s the incidental music that haunts the mind. Some of the stuff on The Uninvited – the strange Thunderbirds story set around a pyramid. Madly, I always feel like I catch echoes of it in some of the arrangements in The Specials early work — Ghost Town in particular – those brass stabs, and the flute figure always sound very Thunderbirds to my ears. Barry Gray’s music did so much of the heavy lifting in terms of mood and scene setting. In much the same way that our own Barry – and now, of course, Matt Slater – bring so much to Endeavour. Their music has saved our blushed more times than I can remember.
DAMIAN: Was it the idea to incorporate the Apollo 11 moon landing or the Supermarionation aspects of the story that came first?
RUSS: Oh – the Moon Landing. It would have been a natural exit point for the series as a whole – as the pinnacle of human achievement.
INT. SOUNDSTAGE/HEAVISIDE STUDIOS
A puppet Moonbase. Consoles with winking lights. The HERO of MOON RANGERS – square jawed MAJOR.ROCK RENTON in a scene with X1 the ANDROID (a ROBOT), LUNARA – one of the Moon People; and COLONEL CRATER, crusty old patriarch.
COLONEL CRATER: Barbara’s not only my daughter, Major, but she’s also a renowned Astro-Physicist in her own right.
MAJOR RENTON: I warned her not to go, Colonel. Now, she’s out there somewhere on the dark side, with only thirty minutes of oxygen left.
COLONEL CRATER: Don’t blame yourself, Rock. She was determined to get that space-flu vaccine through to the miners at Station X19…
DAMIAN: Tell me about creating these characters, the choice of names and if you needed to do much research or does hokey dialogue just come naturally?
RUSS: They were kind of Stingray-ish, really, weren’t they? Alliterative for Troy Tempest/Rock Renton. The name Renton had stuck in my head for fifty years — I think there was a character called Rod Renton in either Secret of Zarb or The Terror of Tiba – these little books I had when I was a kid. Spitfire Books. I’m not sure if they were for younger readers or just pulpy – but they were all genres… cowboy, war, adventure… and the pair in question were sort of secret agenty. The kind of story where each of the buddy-buddy heroes had alliterative names.
DAMIAN: Note the book logo – Tigers were everywhere in the 60s.RUSS: I think the chap in the fez and robes on the cover fed into stage directions for supporting artists at Bixby’s party in RIDE. We just added the horse-hair fly-swatter. A shilling! Money well spent.
And Crater was a version of Commander Shore from Stingray. What we were reaching for with Moon Rangers though was a show that had already passed its sell-by date. Anderson had moved away – with Captain Scarlet – from the larger headed marionettes of the earlier productions to more properly proportioned puppets. And it was important for us that our studio – Heaviside – was still flying the old flag – that it was slipping behind the times. I know Stephen La Rivière has much greater affection for the Stingray/Thunderbirds era puppets. And I do see his point. While Scarlet and Joe 90 were much more realistically proportioned, it was at a cost of what could be done. The puppets in those two shows ‘walk’ or move far less than those in Thunderbirds and Stingray. You’ve got Lieutenant Green on his slidey chair – and Colonel White behind his rotating desk. They’re much more static. It’s a choice. You feel the later shows, including The Secret Service from 69 – which was half live action, half puppetry – were consciously trying to shake off their origins. I liked the darkness of Scarlet a lot, and I’d dearly love to find a way to deliver a version of it — but the artistry and scale of Stingray, together with the hopeful message of Thunderbirds, really makes them the yardstick, and what people tend to think of when they think of Century 21. The particular gait of the puppets, which has been providing comedians with much mileage for over half a century. News recently came through of the death of Alan Patillo at the age of 90. Writer and director for many of Anderson’s shows – his work was quite remarkable. In tribute, Stephen tweeted a link to the climax of The Perils of Penelope. Really — it’s a masterclass in suspense. Absolutely brilliant. A sequence of which Hitchcock or Spielberg would be proud.
DAMIAN: Jeff Slayton, CEO of the fictional Heaviside studios, describes Moon Rangers as a sort of ‘Bonanza in space’ which, of course, reminded me of Star Trek. Now, you often mention the Prime Directive whenever I ask a question regarding Endeavour’s past – typically with reference to Susan Fallon. I obviously understand that the Prime Directive in Star Trek means that Starfleet personnel are forbidden from interfering with the natural development of alien civilisations but can you clarify what is meant when you use it in reference to the Morse universe?
RUSS: It’s [also] Doc Brown’s warning to Marty, isn’t it? We can’t do anything in the past which might change the future.
DAMIAN: Will Susan Fallon ever appear in Endeavour?
RUSS: Well, she sort of already has. She is standing in the group of mourners at her father’s funeral. We just didn’t pick her out or have her see Endeavour, as it felt that might undermine what they have to say to each other in Dead on Time.
LAZARETTO (S4:E3)
DAMIAN: Of course, APOLLO wasn’t all puppets and explosions, and although we’ll discuss some of the key moments regarding Endeavour and Thursday when we conclude our discussion on the themes of alienation, change, guilt and paranoia next time, I wanted to highlight two of my favourite scenes in this script. The first continues from where we began earlier at the vending machine:
THURSDAY: All well, sir?
BRIGHT: A sobering thing to discover so late in life that one is considered a fool.
THURSDAY: Not you, sir.
BRIGHT: Oh, yes. I’m under no illusion. I am a figure of ridicule. To be openly mocked and scorned. (off THURSDAY) This Pelican! — is an albatross around my neck. Someone even mentioned it to Mrs.Bright at Canasta the other evening. People laugh at me behind my back, and even to my face.
THURSDAY: More fool them. Seems to me we’re in the business of keeping the Queen’s Peace and preserving life and limb. This campaign of yours – you’ll probably never know how many lives you’ve saved. Hundreds. Thousands, maybe – by the time it’s done.
BRIGHT: I’ve always been able to rely on you. Well — I must meet a representation from the Oxford traders. Up in arms over parking restrictions.
BRIGHT goes. THURSDAY watches after him.
DAMIAN: Wonderfully played by both actors but Anton’s pause after ‘I’ve always been able to rely on you’ and the poignant look on his face was so moving and beautiful. Now, correct me if I’m wrong but this is the sort of scene, maybe because it doesn’t involve Endeavour or drive the mystery plot forward, that might easily have been deleted in the earlier days of the show. However, I’m confused as to why the following brilliant “best not go there…” scene which does feature Endeavour was not filmed in its entirety and much of the really insightful dialogue not included. Was this simply because of our old enemy screentime or a creative difference perhaps?
INT. CID/NEW COWLEY POLICE STATION
THURSDAY and BOX in BOX’s office. ENDEAVOUR and JOAN keeping an eye on FLORA and MATTHEW — sister helping her brother with his drawing on a blotter. JOAN at the window – eye on the glimpse of moon in the darkened sky.
JOAN: Mad to think there’s people up there. Right now. That someone could have looked out of the window like this and thought – ‘Right. We’re going there.’
ENDEAVOUR: “This was the prized, the desirable sight…” (off JOAN) Sorry. Being clever again. It’s always occupied the human imagination. Understandable, I suppose. But strange, all the same.
JOAN: Strange?
ENDEAVOUR: That something so far away and seemingly out of reach could bear so great an influence on one’s life. Even when you can’t see it. It’s still there. (best not go there…)
RUSS: It was shot. Shaun didn’t care for it and asked me to write another scene – which is the one that was broadcast.
DAMIAN: Finally, what can you tell us about tonight’s film, RAGA?
RUSS: The 1970 General Election is a backdrop. All in Wrestling has a part to play. Greeks Bearing Gifts had a notional influence upon it. It features an Indian restaurant, so probably best avoided by those who bleat about ‘Political correctness gone mad.’
DAMIAN: Just one more thing; you’re having tea with a friend and there are two cakes left on the plate – a large one of a kind you very much like, and a smaller, dry looking one. Which do you choose?
‘I’m afraid I see little of anyone in Traffic, but you’re remembered – often. All my old Cowley gang. You, Inspector Thursday, Sergeant. Strange. Constable Trewlove. And young Fancy, of course. Absent friends. Not yet a year, and already our City days seem a lifetime ago. But there we are. A new decade just around the corner. Well, I must get on.’
Bright to Endeavour from the shooting script of CONFECTION (S6:E3)
DAMIAN: Recalling our very first round of interviews back when we were both still in shorts, I remembered you told me that Bright was ‘a man even more out of time than most in the 1960s’. Indeed, the same might also be said of Thursday, so I’m wondering how on earth the two of them are going to survive the 1970s?
RUSS: There is of course nothing to say that they will. But I think you’re asking about cultural and societal changes. Hot pants. Punk. The mind boggles. There was a little bit of Sir Robert Mark, I think, underpinning the creation of Bright. ‘If you drove like that, you’d deserve to be called…’ And one wonders what he might have made of a Day-Glo Mohican (Mohawk – for our friends across the Big Water) and bondage trousers. Gobbing. I think Thursday might wonder if such was what he fought a war for. The answer – of course – is that such is EXACTLY what he fought a war for. Perhaps, in truth, they’d have taken it all in their sagacious stride. From their end of the telescope – I can tell you – that one tends not to sweat the small stuff. And most things are filed under small stuff.
EXT. STREET – DAY 1
A couple of KIDDIES skip home from school. Off: the bingly-boingly tune of an ICE CREAM VAN. Kids stop and react to see:
Across two streets – at right angles — an ICE CREAM VAN parked up. The KIDDIES come to the kerb between parked cars. Traffic races past. As they start to cross — a gentle hand comes down on a shoulder…
BRIGHT: (Off-screen) Stop!
KIDDIES look to find BRIGHT beside them.
BRIGHT: (Cont’d) Wait a minute. Not so fast. That isn’t how you cross the road. If you step out here you could get badly hurt – or worse. Come along. Come with me.
DAMIAN: The first film of the last series, PYLON, opens – unusually – with Bright and your storylines for series 6 offered the opportunity for Anton Lesser to explore his character in many new dramatic ways. Was there a particular motivation on your part to make series 6 the year for Bright to shine?
RUSS: Well, I’d say Bright always shone. My admiration for Anton Lesser – as an artist and as a human being – knows no bounds. You know of old that his history is something I’ve been trying to include for several series. We got a hint of it with Dulcie, I think, at the end of series 5. A lot of people had been asking about the much mentioned Mrs. Bright, and wondered whether she was going to be another Mrs. Mainwaring or ‘Er Indoors. So it was lovely to meet her at last – albeit we were joining them at a moment of crisis.
DAMIAN: Bright’s Public Information Film is rather tame in comparison but do you remember how truly terrifying some of the actual ones made in the late 60s and early 70s were?
RUSS: I have several DVDs of Public Information Films — and half remember shooting one as a kid. But, yes, there were some terrifically sinister ‘Stranger Danger’ ones. Mummy Says – cut out animation pieces. Children’s artwork cut up and animated – with a child’s voice over. A sort of precursor to the much sampled ‘Charley Says…’ series. I think we all went around in the 60s and 70s in more or less a permanent background state of trauma and anxiety lest ‘a man’ offer us sweets or a ride in his car to a private viewing of some puppies. If said viewing took place adjacent to OPEN WATER or… a PYLON!!!!! Well… there you are. The Pelicon/Pelican crossing PIF was also animated. So we added Bright, a pelican and a catchphrase. Speaking of which… ‘Clunk-Click’ I suppose covered all bases, insofar as you had a Road Safety PIF presented by an absolute danger to livestock.
BRIGHT: (Cont’d) There might not be a police officer or lollipop lady to help you cross the road, so always find a safe place to cross at a designated pedestrian crossing. And remember! “If the Pelican can – then so can you!”
BRIGHT salutes. Musical sting – “If the Pelican can, then so can you!”
DIRECTOR: (Off-screen) And… cut.
Off CAMERA – a Public Information Film Crew about its business. A few BYSTANDERS watching the fun. ‘Checking the Gate’ &c. The PELICAN WRANGLER moves in with a bucket of fish. BRIGHT – the star of the show – ignored.
BRIGHT: (to the DIRECTOR) Was that alright? You know, I’m not sure I would salute…
DIRECTOR: (Off-screen) It’s in the script.
DAMIAN: It’s in the script! – if only that was the policy of all directors. This lovely end to the original opening scene with Bright was cut but was there ever a concern as to what extent a character of such dignity and respect should be humiliated by his demotion?
RUSS: No. Not in the slightest. As you say – knowing quite how much dignity and his place in the world meant to Bright – to cast him down from a high place into something quite else was integral to the design. He was hurt and humiliated and it hurt us to see him brought so low.
DAMIAN: Is Shaun Evans a ‘It’s in the script’ kind of director’?
RUSS: Well – it’s funny isn’t it… A scene that ends with ‘It’s in the script’ – having that bit cut out in the edit. If I remember, Damien Timmer [executive producer and joint-managing director of the production company, Mammoth Screen] felt it was too arch and knowing. So — no director was responsible for that particular dropped stitch. We’ve been very well served by our directors, amongst whom I’d number Shaun – and I’m enormously grateful to them for all they bring to the party. I’d also refer you back to the two signs on my office wall — ‘Television is a collaborative medium’ and ‘Collaborators will be shot!’
EXT. ROAD/SERGEANT’S HOUSE/WOODSTOCK POLICE OUTPOST – DAY 2
A high, lonely stretch of road. Summer fields. Distant PYLONS. A BLACK ZEPHYR comes into view. It slows and pulls off the road outside a SERGEANT’S HOUSE – the only building for miles. A PANDA car parked outside.
CUT TO:
INT. FRONT OFFICE/WOODSTOCK POLICE OUTPOST
Heat gone from the day. The soft long light of a late summer’s evening falls on a patch of wall spotted with POLICE ‘PUBLIC INFORMATION’ POSTERS – bathing all in gold and lime…
…Double doors give on to a narrow vestibule/hall – a hard bench against a wall. Facing the open doors – a drop-leaf counter beyond which, the suggestion of a back room, from whence OPERATIC MUSIC floods the building.
ANGLE – SERVICE BELL on the counter. Beyond – out of focus – a UNIFORM sits with his back towards us, typing at a desk.
A hand comes down on the Service bell.
VISITOR: (Off-screen) Shop!
UNIFORM rises – comes to the counter, and we recognise – ENDEAVOUR in full Thames Valley blues – three stripes on his sleeve. And sporting a moustache. His visitor – STRANGE – a touch of Brylcreem. Three-piece suit. Chelsea Boots.
STRANGE: This is where you’ve been keeping yourself, is it?
ENDEAVOUR’S not going to make it easy. A distance has fallen between them. Things unsaid, and for too long.
DAMIAN: Alienation, change, guilt and paranoia. These are the words that I would use to describe series 6. We’ll perhaps come to some of the others later, but let’s discuss change for now. It’s 1st July, 1969 and, as scripted, you describe a demolition scene complete with wrecking ball and three new high-rise tower-blocks in various stages of completion beyond. Later, Thursday is about to light his pipe but changes his mind and you end the description of this scene simply with the words ‘Out with the old.’
INT. THURSDAY’S OFFICE/CID/POLICE STATION – DAY 9
THURSDAY in his office — filling his pipe. As he goes to light it… He looks across the way to BOX’s office – wherein; BOX and JAGO laughing it up – clinking drinks.
THURSDAY shakes out the match – lays his pipe aside. Out with the old.
Now, I appreciate the more obvious elements such as the fact that we are in a new police station and find many of the characters in new positions, but I also wondered to what extent series 6 might be seen as the beginning of the final act of Endeavour while also memorialising a bygone age of innocence?
RUSS: Yes, I think that’s right. George Fancy – the death of a young colleague – was to my mind the end of the innocence. They’d all taken their knocks – one way or another – and bore them each alone. One can bear one’s own pain — because whatever the level of personal discomfort – emotional or physical – one knows it’s finite, typically. But something like George… That’s something none of them can fix. That’s with them now. Always.
INT. COACH (TRAVELLING) – DAY…
ENDEAVOUR’s POV: through breaks in the ragged hedgeline, distant glimpses of that city of cupola and aquatint…
ENDEAVOUR stares out of the window. The music swells, soaring cor anglais in excelsis…
EXT. OXFORD – DAY
Towers and spires float above the treeline. An aching, giddying, tremulous beauty. Eden before the fall.
Excerpts from First Bus to Woodstock (Shooting draft)
DAMIAN: Eden beforethe fall. You have created such a rich and rounded world that I almost find it hard to imagine a time when there was only Inspector Morse and Lewis. However, recalling one beautiful day back in January 2012, when a young and sanguine Morse was first introduced to the world, I have a sense that both he and the show were a lot more optimistic in 1965 than 1969. Given some of the more recent storylines – for example, series 5 which Damien Timmer would call the “angry” year – and the resulting character developments, do you think you were also a lot more optimistic as both a writer and a person in 2012 than you are today?
RUSS: Oh, I’m always optimistic. Always. Take the long view. We’re an extraordinary species. Right now we’re in the middle of a f*ck-awful catastrophe of our own making – but we’ll fix it. It’s what we do. We’re the problem solving ape. And supposedly uniquely the only type with mortality salience. Awareness of Dying (1965) is good on this. So, the remarkable Greta Thunberg gives cause for hope. The Extinction Rebellion. It feels like we are standing upon one of those fulcrums of history that come along every so often. The way we’ve lived is – to coin a phrase – unsustainable. Also – that old saw, we must love one another or die.
INT. CID/POLICE STATION – DAY 3
ENDEAVOUR exits the lift and comes through to CID OFFICE. The place is buzzing. Phones ring. CID scurry hither and yon. The air thick with cigarette smoke. A moment as he takes it all in.
DCI BOX’s OFFICE off the main drag. THURSDAY’S considerably smaller office. He crosses to a MURDER BOARD — O.S. MAP of the area pinned there. PHOTO of ANN KIRBY. ENDEAVOUR sets an evidence bag down. THURSDAY enters – comes across…
ENDEAVOUR: My report. Syringe is in the bag.
THURSDAY: I’ll see the Guv’nor gets it.
ENDEAVOUR: Anything?
THURSDAY: Early days. You know how it is.
Seeing ENDEAVOUR in CID is more ‘yesterday’ than THURSDAY can bear.
DAMIAN: Both as scripted and shot, how significant is it that the audience first see the new police station, Castle Gate, from Endeavour’s perspective?
RUSS: Absolutely key. We wanted the audience to experience it along with him – and share in his sense of alienation. Change is always unsettling.
DAMIAN: I mentioned paranoia earlier and when I interviewed the production designer of series 5 and 6, Paul Cripps, we discussed how Alan J Pakula’s paranoia trilogy of Klute (1971), The Parallax View (1974) and All the President’s Men (1976) influenced the look and feel of the new CID set. Why were these important to you and how do you think the influence manifests itself in the finished films of series 6?
RUSS: Ah, dear Paul — top man. Certainly the intent was to have a chillier milieu, something lacking the warm, woody tones and cosiness of Cowley. Looking at my pictorial history of Oxford City police, we did draw on the real world new station that seemed to come in with the change from City to Thames Valley. We’ve always wanted it to feel like something that’s evolving naturally – rather than something preserved in aspic.
DAMIAN: And are there any films or television that might have served as visual references for the production designer, Madelaine Leech, this year on series 7?
RUSS: Um… Oddly… Don’t Look Now – a little bit.
Don’t Look Now (1973)
DAMIAN: From your own experience and perspective of the 1970s, which historical, social or cultural events shaped the decade?
RUSS: Crikey. How long have you got? Heath government. Three Day Week. Blackouts. Joining the EC. Oil crisis. ‘75 Referendum. That summer. Jubilee. Winter of Discontent. And then the great misfortune. But across it all – ‘The Troubles’ – as we euphemistically call them. Like a running sore. Blood and dirty protests and hunger strikes and Long Kesh, and knee-capping, and tarred and feathered, and Guildford and Birmingham, and Balcombe Street, and the Disappeared. All of it seemingly played out against the World in Action theme tune. Beyond that – the ever present threat of nuclear annihilation. But I wouldn’t want you to think it was all fun and laughter. The New Economics Foundation – a think tank that does such things – looked into it, and, having looked into it, came to the conclusion that, based on an index of social, economic and environmental factors, 1976 was the best year on record for the quality of life in Britain. I think that The Good Life and Fawlty Towers landing the year before, and The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin being broadcast in ‘76 (Rising Damp and Porridge were also running) may have had something to do with it. Perhaps it’s all down to Leonard Rossiter.
But there certainly was a sort of confidence in the air. Abigail’s Party was almost upon us. What market-research nodes and New Labour would later distill as an ‘aspirational’ mindset. We touched upon it a bit in APOLLO [S6:E2] with that Lotus Eater swinger set. An internationalism seemed to be in play. The uptake in foreign package holidays was really getting into its stride. Jeux Sans Frontieres – which we also nodded to. A sense that we were part of something different and that different was exciting. Beverly’s penchant for Demis Roussos is on one level wildly funny – but as with putting the red wine in the fridge, we are being invited to laugh at her pretentions towards the cosmopolitan.
You’ll also notice around the middle of the decade that ads for things like Campari – ‘Were you truly wafted here from paradise?’, Martini and Cinzano were suddenly everywhere. The Cointreau Christmas ad. All of this spoke to an exoticism – a world beyond our shores. Britain was on the up.
DAMIAN: And looking back at First Bus to Woodstock right up to the end of series 6, were there any historical, social or cultural events that you would have liked to have squeezed in from 1965 to ‘69 but weren’t able to for some reason or another?
RUSS: The death of Hancock. On one level I’m sorry we didn’t mark it – but on another… in our through a glass darkly world, I like to think The Lad Himself is still out there, the fictional Anthony Aloysious St. John Hancock, sometime actor, and general chiseller. There was a grain of hopeful, canine optimism in Galton & Simpson’s version of Hancock that somehow eluded the real man. Well – there’s booze for you. Don’t do it, kids.
HRH PRINCE CHARLES (Voice over): “I, Charles, do become your liege man of life and limb and of earthly worship, and faith and truth I bear unto you, to live and die against all manner of folks.”
DAMIAN: Why was it important to include the investiture of Prince Charles?
RUSS: It’s a memory. My old man was from the Valleys, and was in Wales for his annual fortnightly family visit/holiday at the time of the Investiture. He brought me back a Welsh flag. We had a commemorative mug, too, that I remember. In terms of the design – it’s a handover, isn’t it — or a least the foreshadowing of one. Though one imagines Endeavour has a lot shorter wait to come into his estate than the Prince of Wales.
DAMIAN: As with many aspects of the country at the moment, opinion seems divided regarding the Royle Family. Do you think a character like Endeavour is less likely to be sympathetic towards the monarchy than, say, Thursday or Bright?
RUSS: Well, I think we’ve seen Bright’s starry-eyed encounter with Princess Margaret [ROCKET, S1:E3]. And there would have been a deference hard-wired into Thursday, I suppose. Endeavour – ambivalent at best.
STRANGE: Back to the day-job, then. That was quite nice while it lasted. Bit like the good old days.
ENDEAVOUR: Which were they? Remind me.
DAMIAN: The delightful little social or cultural references in your scripts often resonate with people who personally remember the 60s or 70s and PYLON has quite a few but what really struck a chord with me was simply ‘Mrs. KIRBY pops three fish-fingers under the grill’. Can you describe the smells coming from your kitchen during the late 60s or early 70s?
RUSS: As you know, my domestic arrangements were singular — so the kitchen was more redolent of the Long Weekend. Another slice of gravy, anyone? Our kitchen was a death trap. Health and Safety… just wasn’t a thing. That I am here at all is pure luck. Smells coming from the kitchen? Boiling lard. Seriously. Boiling lard. I’m not sure we’re quite there yet with Endeavour — but the rise of the DEEP FREEZE, so beloved of serial killers, is on its way. Whole livestock carcasses. WHY? Oh, it was a bargain, was it? Suddenly, a dead sheep is on the premises – dismembered and resembling something reclaimed from the tundra permafrost. Arctic Roll? You’re darn tootin’.
INT. ENDEAVOUR’S FLAT/SERGEANTS HOUSE/WOODSTOCK POLICE OUTPOST – DAY 2
Above the shop. It’s seen better days. Some drinks later.
STRANGE: So, what’s the Blues all about?
ENDEAVOUR: CID closed a month after I got to Woodstock. Budget. It was uniform or nothing.
STRANGE: You could’ve gone elsewhere.
ENDEAVOUR leaves that possibility hanging – unanswered…
DAMIAN: Since Endeavour left that possibility hanging, could you perhaps answer on his behalf please?
RUSS: Of course, he couldn’t. He had unfinished business.
… ENDEAVOUR: What about you?
STRANGE: You know me. I’m doing alright.
ENDEAVOUR: There was a piece in the Gazette about an Inter-Departmental something or other.
STRANGE: The Inter-Departmental Forward Strategy Steering Committee.
ENDEAVOUR: Steering what exactly?
STRANGE: Resources. Man-power. It’s a sort of ‘quasi-managerial anticipatory role.’
The management speaks rolls trippingly off the tongue, as from one to the manner born…
DAMIAN: Sometimes a figure of fun but always a thoroughly decent and dependable chap. The beautifully written transition from the Strange in GIRL (S1:E1) to the one we see in THE DEAD OF JERICHO is happening so gradually and subtlety but to what extent are his advancements attributable to the Lodge or his own good character and hard work?
RUSS: I’m enormously fond of Riggers and of all that he’s brought to Strange. He’s a fearsomely good young actor. I’ve seen him on stage, and I can tell you, with Strange we barely scratch the surface of what he can do. Yet we may, Mister Frodo – yet we may. As with all our company, we’ve been enormously fortunate — and I really do admire and respect young Mister Rigby. He’s an absolute gift. His level of preparedness and professionalism… Anybody out there would be lucky to work with him. We see a lot more of Strange in Endeavour, of course, than we ever saw of Jimmy Grout in Inspector Morse. And that’s given us the opportunity to feather in some history beyond that in the series or in the novels. I think he’s hugely able, and that we’ve barely begun to tap into his talents as a copper and a detective. The Lodge has its part to play — but Strange is no fool trading on a funny handshake and an apron.
STRANGE: (lightly) Seen the old man?
ENDEAVOUR: I called the house a few times. Left messages.
STRANGE: I’d’ve told ‘em where to stick it.
ENDEAVOUR: Would you? (they both know STRANGE wouldn’t) Division doesn’t like losing police officers.
STRANGE: Full Disciplinary, though? Busted down a rank? It wasn’t right. (a moment) And we’re still no nearer to finding who did for George.
ENDEAVOUR: ‘We’? I’m here. You’re there. He’s at Castle Gate. Mister Bright at Traffic. There isn’t a we – not any more – nor likely to be.
STRANGE: We said…
ENDEAVOUR: You said. (beat; off STRANGE) I don’t blame you. Heat of the moment. Like the last day of school. Solemn oaths and giddy declarations. ‘We happy few…’
STRANGE: I meant it.
ENDEAVOUR: I’m sure. (beat) But that’s not how it turned out. It’s never how these things turn out.
WIDE – two old friends, coffee table between them – the width of an ocean.
DAMIAN: You know, I increasingly find myself siding with Strange and other supporting characters rather than Endeavour. Indeed, like Strange, I’m often ‘baffled and appalled’ by his attitude. Another example would be the vicious way he mocks Joan’s attempts to improve herself in APOLLO (S6:E2). Maybe it’s just me, but isn’t this a bit of a problem considering he’s the main character?
RUSS: Well, with Joan, of course — ‘If he can’t have her, he must hurt her.’ It’s a mess. What can I tell you? But, in the example you mention, it’s a man putting off the dread hour. If we’re going to look at it in terms of the wretched paradigm, this is the ‘Refusal of the Call to Adventure.’ Barf! There’s a scene with Max that didn’t make the cut – that you’ll have read [this will be included in another interview], where again, Endeavour is really doing his best not to be dragged back into the fray. He’s bleeding. Fancy’s death is chewing him up. He doesn’t want to be the hero that the universe is demanded he becomes. And so he’s dismissive of Strange’s overt camaraderie. We’re back to Bogart — ‘I stick my neck out for nobody.’
ENDEAVOUR at his ablutions. The face that looks back in the mirror is one he hardly recognises. Emotional permafrost. The only clue that this is still our ENDEAVOUR is a wounded look in his eye, for which there is no balm.
DAMIAN: Does Shaun ever have reservations regarding the likeability of his character or does he relish exploring the deep complexity of Endeavour?
RUSS: I always imagine it to be the latter.
EXT. SERGEANT’S HOUSE/WOODSTOCK POLICE OUTPOST
Dusk. ENDEAVOUR walks STRANGE over to his car.
STRANGE: Well, then, matey.
ENDEAVOUR: Let me know next time. I’ll bake a cake.
STRANGE turns for his car – and then turns back.
STRANGE: Oh, I saw Joanie. Said to say hullo if I ran into you.
ENDEAVOUR lets the conversational ball drop.
STRANGE: (CONT’D) Started in as a trainee with the Welfare. So, I suppose it all works out in the end. (turns at his car) We shouldn’t let it go — what happened to George. (off ENDEAVOUR’s indifference) Don’t you care?
ENDEAVOUR: Would it make a difference?
DAMIAN: Tell me about Joan’s new job and the introduction of Viv?
RUSS: I think I’ve said before that I’m deeply invested in her journey – Joan and Win, actually – representing, as they do, two generations of women – a mother and daughter at a hinge of history. And again with Dorothea Frazil – very much a woman in a man’s world – taking a claw-hammer to the glass ceiling. On one level – with the coppers being coppers there’s a danger that it turns into something very blokey. If you’re going to try to paint in some social history beyond the whodunitry, then why would you exclude the greater half the population?
And – again, as I’ve said before – having put Joan through some difficult experiences, it felt right to have her reclaim agency over her own life. Her life, her rules, her way. She’s had quite enough of blokes for the time being, thank you very much — now it’s about her. Her wants and needs. I’d always seen her as someone with a lot to give to the world — and it seemed right that she would move into Welfare – particularly Children’s Welfare – right at the point that people’s need for that service was expanding. There was a show in the early 70s called Helen,A Woman of Today which had that Aznavour hit, ‘She’ as its theme tune. It starred Alison Fiske and Martin Shaw – and was really ahead of its time in the way it put a woman at the centre of the drama, and explored the story from her point of view. Hugely important show. So, there was that, and then an afternoon show with Stephanie Beacham called Marked Personal about the ‘Personnel’ department (HR nowadays) of a large business. Again – that had, in the phrase du jour, a ‘female-centric’ approach. Within These Walls – the Women’s Prison drama with Googie Withers and Mona Washbourne – was also contemporary with these, and clearly made some kind of impression. I suppose all of this fed into how Joan is developing. It seemed like a rich area for us to explore, and I’m sure will prove so. You know, Sara Vickers is just an amazing talent, and I love to write for her. It’s always a thrill to see her work – so intelligent, so sensitive. Enormously grateful to her.
DAMIAN: I’m sure we’ll talk about Thursday in a lot more detail in another one of our interviews but for now, I was wondering if the Clemence subplot was always a part of his backstory or created specifically for this film?
RUSS: I think it was always something at the back of my mind. That because much of his work would have taken place while we still had capital punishment, he would have helped send people to the gallows. Also, in terms of all that followed, combined with the situation he’d found himself in courtesy of Charlie, it undermined him further still.
EXT/NT. 13 JUBILEE ROW – NIGHT XI (FLASHBACK – 1954)
Night and rain. A trench-coated DETECTIVE SERGEANT THURSDAY crosses from CID CAR parked outside – past UNIFORMS and into a house.
Blood spatter up the walls.
In the back parlour – A WOMAN lies dead in a pool of blood. It’s a pretty squalid environment. UNIFORMS, PHOTOGRAPHER, the usual paraphernalia. A flash gun goes off.
Near the body – a PLAYPEN in which a TODDLER (2) stands in a romper suit – bawling its eyes out. THURSDAY reacts — heartstruck. He sweeps the child up from the PLAYPEN, and carries him out.
CUT TO:
INT. THURSDAY’S OFFICE/POLICE STATION – NIGHT 3
ENDEAVOUR: Who killed his mother?
THURSDAY: His father. Philip Clemence. Commercial traveller. Knocked out brushes – door to door.
ENDEAVOUR: He go down for it?
THURSDAY, a moment — darkness here.
DAMIAN: Darkness. You know, I can’t help but think that Thursday’s backstory regarding his younger days in the army and subsequent formative years in the police would make a great film in it’s own right.
RUSS: Only if – as with Sam Vimes and John Keel – Roger could act as mentor (for a while at least!) to his younger self. But yes — when we all turn our warrant cards, I have half an idea to explore Thursday’s London career, but not as a television piece.
INT. GALLOWS – DAY X2 (FLASHBACK – 1954)
PHILIP CLEMENCE’s hands are pinioned by PIERREPOINT. White cloth back goes over his head.
CLEMENCE: I didn’t do it. I’m innocent. Thursday!
PIERREPOINT pulls the handle…
DAMIAN: Pierrepoint was the famous hangman who exectued hundreds including the Acid Bath Murderer and the Rillington Place Strangler as well as more contentious executions such as Timothy Evans and Derek Bentley. Is the latter point the reason you reference him in the script and, if so, why wasn’t this made more explicit in the film?
RUSS: It was there more as a grace note.
Albert Pierrepoint (1905-1992)
EXT. MAX’S HOUSE – DAY 6
ENDEAVOUR on the doorstep. MAX opens the door — wearing a cook’s apron, and with a knife in hand, he looks as if he’s just stepped out of his mortuary.
MAX: (re: the knife) Nothing sinister. I was just getting a seedcake out of the oven.
DAMIAN: Nothing sinister is another Russ-ism – you often say that, you know? Anyway, I loved this scene and was thrilled to finally catch a glimpse of Max’s house and I thought both the baking and his love for gardening was a great insight into how he manages to keep his two worlds at a safe distance.
MAX: Have to give it [the seedcake] half an hour to cool. Well – this is a first. (re: drinks) Splash more?
MAX knocks up a Whisky Mac – scotch and ginger wine over ice.
ENDEAVOUR: Been here long?
MAX: Eight years? Yes. Eight years. Don’t know what I’d do without it, to be honest. How d’you know where I live, by the way?
ENDEAVOUR: You’re in the book. (re: the house and garden) Nice.
MAX: I’m fighting a war of attrition with the greenfly over the tea-roses. Not very successfully, it must be said. But, yes – as a spot I’m rather fond. (a moment)Something has to be lovely, doesn’t it?
DAMIAN: Later in the scene, Max says that ‘I shan’t flatter myself it’s altogether a social call…’ and I was wondering – as is the case in the original Colin Dexter novels – if we will see the point in their relationship where they do actually socialise together?
RUSS: Yes, Jimmy lost out a bit here, insofar as there was an Endeavour taking his leave of Max scene that followed on which I’d thought was quite important [again, this will be included in a later interview]. A spur to Endeavour’s flanks – or at least a prick to his conscience. Perhaps one day we’ll include all the outtakes in the definitive, all our sins remembered, DVD collection. It felt right – Max acting as Jiminy (Jimmy) Cricket to Endeavour’s little wooden boy.
I’m sure we will get to see them socialise more at some point — should we last that long. But in terms of this run of films, it was as much about underlining Endeavour’s own rootlessness at that point. His lack of somewhere to call his own — which would eventually bear fruit at the other end of the run.
DAMIAN: What can you tell us about the first film of series 7, ORACLE?
RUSS: Well, I realised that with all the other things that had to be taken care of in ‘69, I hadn’t gone out of my way to particularly dial up the Scare the Bejesus Meter, and thought those that care for such might have felt left out. So… With that in mind, and as they used to say in the comics, A Happy New Year to All Our Readers.
DAMIAN: When did you first become aware of the art of production design and was there a particular TV show or a trip to the cinema that fired your imagination?
MADELAINE: Maybe I was just a slow starter but it took me a while to realise there was such a thing as production design. I always loved rainy Sunday afternoons when a black and white film would be shown on BBC2. I hated Wimbledon as this slot would be replaced by boring tennis, unless it rained. My favourite films were 1930s, 40s , 50s at home drama so there never “appeared” to be any design, they just were. But one of my favourite films is Alec Guinness in The Man in the White Suit. I loved the story and even more the design and sound of the equipment he uses to make the thread. So I think this is the one which subconsciously fired by imagination. The results and dressing after each bomb blast always amuses me.
Art direction by Jim Morahan Alexandre Trauner worked with many great directors but one of mine and Madelaine’s favourite films was this collaboration with Billy Wilder.
DAMIAN: Are there any production designers that have inspired you over the years?
MADELAINE: I love the work of Alexandre Trauner. And Ken Adam with his sets for James Bond are fantastic.
Dr. No was the first of Ken Adam’s seven stunningly designed Bond films which largely influenced the style of the entire seriesGoldfingerThunderballYou Only Live TwiceDiamonds Are ForeverThe Spy Who Loved MeMoonraker
DAMIAN: You’ve worked in various different genres but what kind of project really gets you excited to the point where you can’t stop thinking of ideas?
MADELAINE: Drama. It all begins for me from the characters in the script. I start to imagine what type of home or environment would they have created for themselves. Or what outside factors have influenced that person.
DAMIAN: And you’ve also worked as a set decorator, art director and, of course, production designer. Can you tell me a little bit about your training and at what point you realised that this was the creative discipline for you?
MADELAINE: I went to Art College and studied Interior Design. I knew it wasn’t the career for me but worked designing pubs, hotels and offices for about two years. Then in the 1980s, like many people, I was made redundant. I wondered why I was trying so hard to get into a job I found very slow. So I turned my attention to designing for TV. I was lucky enough to get a job in the BBC design department. From that moment, I have loved every minute in this industry.
DAMIAN: Your many impressive credits include another detective series, Vera, do you have any favourite productions that you’ve worked on or consider to be particularly instrumental in your development as a production designer?
MADELAINE: One of the jobs I am most proud of, other than Endeavour of course, was a single drama about Shirley Bassey. A designer’s dream to be able to follow a character over many years. We started in the 1930s and ran through till the 1960s. I loved the amount of research which was required into a real person but also giving me the freedom to interpret her personality. It was a fun job.
DAMIAN: How did you come to work on Endeavour?
MADELAINE: I had wanted to design Endeavour… well… forever really. I love the show. A little bird had told me Paul Cripps was moving on so I asked my agent to push for an interview. I was seen by the Line Producer and the Producer and I was very, very lucky to be successful.
DAMIAN: Endeavour has had various previous production designers: Pat Campbell did First Bus to Woodstock, followed by Matt Gant, Anna Higginson, Anna Pritchard, Alison Butler and the aforementioned Paul Cripps worked on the previous two series. Perhaps unlike some other aspects of film and television making, would you say from your own experience that art departments offer more opportunities regardless of gender?
MADELAINE: Yes, it does seem like that. Which is a very good thing. I think they do go for just the best person for the job rather than gender.
DAMIAN: Did you look at their work as part of your research or for reference before you started your own designs and is it more challenging to take over from previous artists or more artistically rewarding to start from scratch?
MADELAINE: Yes I did. Endeavour has its own style and I did my research and looked at all the previous designers work. One thing that struck me was the volume of graphics required so I knew from the start I needed a strong graphics department.
I enjoyed fitting in with the previous designers work and as each film introduces new storylines, you still get the opportunity to put your mark on it.
Colour mood boardOriginal locationThe finished set
DAMIAN: Compared to most TV dramas, would you agree that Endeavour is especially ambitious in that each different film has its own unique look and feel?
MADELAINE: Yes, I do agree. It works really well as each episode has a different Director and Director of Photography so they manage to achieve this very successfully I think.
DAMIAN: I know from meeting Paul and Russ and my subsequent interviews with them both that there was a lot of discussion regarding the look and feel of last year’s new CID set and how it would evoke the themes of alienation, change, guilt and paranoia. Without giving too much away, what do you consider to be the main themes of series seven and how do your designs reflect them?
MADELAINE: We have continued these themes in this series too. But also added deceit and decay. I believe we have achieved the decay rather well with wall treatments, colours and textures.
DAMIAN: What was the most challenging set to design of the three films this year?
MADELAINE: Again without saying too much, the story travels abroad on this series. I had to recreate some of these lands far away within the Watford area. We had two amazing location managers. So with their help I think we have succeeded in making the audience believe they are not in the UK.
DAMIAN: Considering series five had six episodes, you had it easy didn’t you?
MADELAINE: I take my hat off to all the cast and crew who worked on series five. We only did three but yes it was very hard work. But worth it and a lot of fun. Many of the crew return each year and I can see why. They are a very friendly, hardworking and professional team.
DAMIAN: I was born in the seventies so I’m especially curious to see how the look of Endeavour has evolved this year. Now, I’ve mentioned this many times to Russ but one of the productions that I relate to most strongly in terms of the visual look and “smell” of the seventies is Hitchcock’s Frenzy. It’s something that I can’t quite describe but, despite the fact that it is obviously about a serial killer, it remains the one film which resonates with me and has visual echoes of my own childhood. Funny thing, when I asked Russ to give me an example of a film that visually echoed his first memories, he said 10 Rillington Place! – dare I ask what yours might be?
MADELAINE: I love 1970’s films and TV now but in my youth I was definitely into much older films. I would love films like Hobson’s Choice. Saying that, Far from the Madding Crowd (1967 version) was a favourite to be watched over and over.
Hobson’s ChoiceFar from the Madding Crowd. DAMIAN: I like the red curtains very much.
DAMIAN: We obviously got a glimpse of Endeavour’s new home in the last series which fans know from the original Inspector Morse series. To what extent do you think you have put your own personal spin on this while also remaining faithful to how it looked when the show was first broadcast in 1987?
MADELAINE: When preparing for my interview I looked at the Inspector Morse programmes with special interest to his house. I decided the best way was to start from the end and work back. Again the location manager on series 6 was very clever in finding a house that had the feel of the original. Morse’s living room was a pale baby blue which I felt was wrong for the younger man. Due to Russ’ script and the feeling of decay and the fact that the squat which he had bought at the end series 6 had been covered with graffiti I decided strip back the walls but keep the many layers of wallpaper. It looked great and Russ even changed the action to suit the design.
DAMIAN: Madelaine, thank you very much indeed.
MADELAINE: Thank you. I love your website, it really helped me when I was researching to get to work on Endeavour.
‘I see Dorothea in the 1960s as having the sleuth-like brains of Ms Marple, the independent feminism of Germaine Greer, the seductive charms of Ava Gardner and the sense of humour of Eric Morcambe.’
Abigail Thaw (March, 2014)
DAMIAN: It’s been almost six years since our first interview and yet I vividly remember what you told me when I asked you to describe Dorothea which still makes me smile every single time you appear onscreen. Still a good description isn’t it?
ABIGAIL: Hah. Yup.
DAMIAN: And how would you describe Dorothea in 1970?
ABIGAIL: The same! A little older. A little sadder. But perhaps a little more hopeful.
DAMIAN: What do you personally remember of the 70s; any key historic social or political moments, films or TV shows that defined the decade for you?
ABIGAIL: Well, I was a kid so for me it was the music and the TV. David Bowie and Suzi Quattro. Stevie Wonder and Funkadelic. The Generation Game, Morecambe and Wise and Six Million Dollar Man. The hot summer of ‘76. Power cuts. Fewer cars. Playing football in the streets… Sitting outside pubs with a coke and a packet of crisps while the grown-ups lived it up inside. Actually, we loved that. Can you imagine that now?! My kids certainly can’t. Like driving around in a car with a chain-smoking adult and the windows closed!
But in terms of family life, in the early 70s the Women’s Movement was the most prominent continual event. My mother was very involved and it meant a lot of marches and meetings and travelling with her to conferences. Some of my earliest memories are sitting on her lap or in the creche at the Oxford Union. She was a mature student there and started up the Women’s Liberation Conference along with her peers. This finds its way into the first film of series 7, actually. My daughter is playing my mother, very briefly!
I was always brought up to believe I was equal to a man. It was a simple doctrine. No better or worse but entitled to the same opportunities and the same respect. And I was always encouraged to speak up if I felt there was an injustice to me or anyone else. Trade unions had a lot of power but not many women did so mum helped set up the Night Cleaners Union. They were women who had very few rights and did the shifts no one else wanted to do. It meant going on a lot of demonstrations and painting banners and even wearing a night cleaner’s overall at the front of the march which maybe influenced my desire to act and show off in later life! My mother was very serious about the ideology and felt that men were part of that movement. My step-father was very present as was my father and she loved men. I think that made me feel confident to fight my corner if I felt there was injustice. That men weren’t the enemy, they were my friends. It was society!
DAMIAN: So much has happened since 1965 and I’ve got a few questions about Dorothea and her relationship with Endeavour in particular. First of all, you told me before that she has ‘a fond and protective spot’ for him and is ‘often trying to find ways “in”’. Do you think she has found a way “in” yet?
ABIGAIL: I do, actually. They don’t need to say much but they have been through a lot, seen a lot, fallen out and reconciled. That adds depth.
DAMIAN: Also from our previous interview, I remember you mentioning Russ’ excellent scripts, the way he writes with a particular syntax for each character and that you and Shaun often try to find ways to play with this as you both like a bit of a laugh. However, you also mentioned that the directors often try to reign you both in on this so I’m wondering -since Shaun is obviously a director himself now- if you feel a little more free to explore and experiment with the dialogue when he’s at the helm?
ABIGAIL: Hah. Not really. I’m a big believer in the written word. It’s been put there for a reason. But things change all the time on set. Sometimes time simply runs out or a plot line has to change so you adapt. The exploration mainly comes from how you say something rather than what. And I’m often surprised to find the mood of a scene can go a different way. Probably much to Russ’ dismay!
DAMIAN: You told me that you had a notebook tucked away with some thoughts when I asked if you had your own ideas regarding Dorothea’s backstory. Since then, Russ wrote a scene in QUARTET (S5:E5) which was sadly cut but would have offered some great insight into the character’s past:
INT. AMBER LODGE/LOBBY – DAY 1
CLAUDINE at the RECEPTION desk. She comes across to DOROTHEA…
CLAUDINE: Miss Frazil? Claudine Darc. I’m a photo-journalist.
DOROTHEA: Bad luck.
CLAUDINE: And a friend of Morse. Would you sign something for me?
CLAUDINE pulls out a well-thumbed book — ‘TRAVELS WITH MYSELF – THE WAR IN KOREA – BY DOROTHEA FRAZIL.’
DOROTHEA: Good heavens. Where did you find that?
CLAUDINE: A book-seller on the Seine by Pont-Neuf. It’s a classic. It means a lot to me. (as DOROTHEA SIGNS) What was it like? For a woman on the Front Line.
DOROTHEA: Are you squeamish?
CLAUDINE: No.
DOROTHEA: Then you’ll be alright. Why?
CLAUDINE: Why didn’t you do more?
DOROTHEA: Ask me when you come back.
DAMIAN: I wouldn’t have thought of Dorothea as being squeamish either so I’m wondering why Dorothea didn’t do more. Was it fatigue, too traumatic an experience or simply a revulsion for slaughter and suffering?
ABIGAIL: I think the latter mainly. At some point you reach saturation point and you either normalise it – and go slightly mad – or you call a halt. I think she thought, enough. I’m going back to Oxford, where I was happiest. Not much can happen there…!
DAMIAN: Dorothea often witnesses Endeavour in his darkest moments such as the following scene -as written rather than shot- during the aftermath of George Fancy’s death in ICARUS (S5:E6):
EXT. SNOOKER HALL – NIGHT 5
Police vehicles. In the lee of the entrance, ENDEAVOUR — shocked to his core – he struggles a smoke to his lips, but his hands are trembling too hard to light it. DOROTHEA…
DOROTHEA: Here.
She lights his smoke. Their eyes meet over the flame.
DOROTHEA (CONT’D): Is it true?
The answer in ENDEAVOUR’s – wounded, thousand yard stare.
Time and again she also acts as something of an emotional intelligence mentor as in the following scene from PYLON (S6:E1), once again on the subject of George Fancy:
DOROTHEA: You have to forgive him.
ENDEAVOUR: For what?
DOROTHEA: Dying. Then you can forgive yourself – for being angry at him. It’s part of letting go.
ENDEAVOUR: Have you just got back from an Ashram?
DOROTHEA: Make peace with him, Morse. Or it’ll eat you alive.
DAMIAN: Is Dorothea simply offering sage advice or is there perhaps more to this scene such as the possibility that it comes from her own experiences of pain and guilt?
ABIGAIL: I think she’s been there in some way. Again, we’ve had a glimpse of what it was in another episode but it was cut.
DAMIAN: There’s a wonderful scene in CONFECTION (S6:E3) with Dorothea and Endeavour who has fallen for yet another wrong’un:
DOROTHEA: Second time lucky. The vet’s daughter.
ENDEAVOUR: Haven’t you had enough of gossip to going on with for now.
DOROTHEA: What we do, isn’t it? ‘I won’t quarrel with my bread and butter.’
DOROTHEA: Buy you a drink? They say misery loves company.
ENDEAVOUR: Another time?
DOROTHEA heads off. ENDEAVOUR alone.
DAMIAN: If only Dorothea was a few years younger! You know, intertextual Freudian nightmares aside, I often think that Dorothea and Endeavour would make a great couple were it not for their age difference. A lovely moment from HARVEST, where the two of them are exploring the higher levels of a power station and he freezes because of his fear of heights and she says ‘Just shut your eyes and take my hand. Come on. One foot in front of the other.’
I’ve asked Russ if Dorothea is just a little bit attracted to Endeavour but he says that is absolutely not the case so let me put it differently and ask a slightly different question: if Endeavour ever had a long-term girlfriend, wouldn’t she have good reason to be jealous of his relationship with Dorothea?
ABIGAIL: Well, probably. In the sense that Dorothea has access to parts of his interior life that he doesn’t share lightly. So even though it’s not sexual, it is intimate. When people ask me why Endeavour and Dorothea don’t get together – apart from the Freudian nightmare! – I think of the ancient Greeks’ belief that friendship is more valuable than erotic love: the latter makes things messy and ultimately can end. Friendship endures and deepens.
DAMIAN: Now, it obviously goes without saying that I’m a huge fan of Endeavour and a great admirer of Russ’ writing. However, I don’t think my interviews with him – we’ve done one on each and every episode over the last six years- would work if I simply told him how brilliant he was every time. Indeed, we’ve had our differences of opinion and one of the points of contention involves Dorothea because I was disappointed by her relationship with Kent Finn in GAME (S4:E1) who is described in the script as ‘a brooding inkslinger clinging to his thirties by a fingernail… [his fandom as] an Oxford equivalent of James Ellroy’s ‘peepers, prowlers, pederasts, panty-sniffers, punks and pimps’…’
Furthermore, on seeing Dorothea, ‘A flirty, lupine smile plays roguishly about his lip… is the kind of crap line that belongs in one of his novels’. And so I was disappointed that someone as wise and perceptive as Dorothea would get involved with such a man. What are your thoughts on this?
ABIGAIL: Hasn’t everyone had an amour fou? Maybe he was great in bed and no strings attached!
DAMIAN: And another issue was that, as exciting as the her abduction was to watch and the subsequent car chase and crash, I wondered if seeing Dorothea in the role of damsel in distress was also a little disappointing as opposed to giving her something more empowering to do?
ABIGAIL: I see your point but I think the fact that she got herself out of his clutches by strangling him while he drove like a lunatic was pretty brave. She wasn’t worried about the inevitable car crash when you’re choking the driver.
DAMIAN: Rather than engulfed in flames, the original idea was for the car to be submerged in water but was changed for budget reasons. Was this for the best or are you a good swimmer?
ABIGAIL: Haha. Yes, I am a good swimmer. It really was budget. And I think it was Endeavour who was going to fish me out of the water. So maybe I was deemed too heavy!
DAMIAN: I was thrilled to hear that Sheila Hancock would be appearing in HARVEST (S4:E4) to celebrate the 30th Anniversary of Inspector Morse but disappointed that the two of you didn’t share a scene together. However, when I later studied the script, I was even more dismayed to discover the following scene was actually written for the two of you but not bloody used:
EXT. BRAMFORD MERE
DOROTHEA: Good morning, Miss Chattox. Dorothea Frazil. Oxford Mail. I interviewed you a few years ago, about your battle with the Power Station.
DOWSABLE: I remember you.
DOROTHEA: Still fighting the good fight, I see.
DOWSABLE: If you mean they haven’t seen me off yet, then, no – they haven’t. Nor will they.
DAMIAN: Please tell me this scene was actually filmed and still exists somewhere?
ABIGAIL: It was and it does. Somewhere.
DAMIAN: And finally, I told Russ recently that I thought both he and the show were a lot more optimistic in 1965 than 1969 and highlighted as evidence some of the more politically-charged storylines such as those in series 5 which Damien Timmer called his “angry” year. What do you think Dorothea would make of a country that seems so politically divided in 2020?
ABIGAIL: I think she would despair. As I do. But she’d have a more practical approach to trying to fix it.
DAMIAN: Abigail, thank you very much indeed and let’s not leave it so long next time.
TONIGHT’S EVENT DETAILS: The evening will start at 6 with The Whitechapel Society’s annual general meeting. I’ll then be joining publisher, author and executive editor of ‘Ripperologist’ magazine, Adam Wood, and world-renowned crime historian and historical adviser to ‘From Hell’ and ‘Ripper Street’, Keith Skinner, at 7 to discuss the acclaimed TV series. There will also be a charity auction of Ripper memorabilia in aid of The British Heart Foundation.
So, hopefully see you tonight although for those who can’t make it, the talk will be recorded and available next week via Rippercast: The Podcast on Jack the Ripper and the Whitechapel Murders.
DAMIAN: You were surprised I liked CARTOUCHE. Why exactly?
RUSS: I thought you might find it too frivolous – too knowing.
DAMIAN: I’ve tried a couple of times in the past to get you to tell me what your favourite episodes are but without much success. Since you’re unlikely to budge on this, perhaps you might instead at least acknowledge that some episodes are more important than others?
RUSS: I don’t know if I’d agree with you over importance. To borrow from Marge Gundersson, ‘People always need the little stamps.’
DAMIAN: Let’s look at it from a different perspective then; would you agree that it is unlikely that ITV, Mammoth Screen or yourself would wish to open or close a series of a highly respected Sunday-night detective dramawith an episode featuring a mummy on the rampage in Oxford?
RUSS: I would. But while we probably wouldn’t open or close a run with a CARTOUCHE like number, if the entirety of the series followed suit then things might get a little samey.
INT. ROXY/CINEMA SCREEN – DAY 1
In darkness. A crackly, repeating MORSE CODE signal.
— .–. …
Onscreen: Black and white art-deco 1930s FILM LOGO — ‘MAMMOTH PICTURES STUDIOS’ wrapped around a spinning globe topped with a radio antenna sending ‘lightning bolts’ into the ether. An airship circumnavigates the sphere, against the rotation of the planet.
MUSIC of a distinctly Egyptian theme BEGINS… Black and White — TITLES against shifting desert sands. “MERIAM C. DENHAM presents EMIL VALDEMAR in THE PHARAOH’S CURSE” “Screenplay by W.P. Mayhew” “Directed by Von Mayerling.” &c.
DAMIAN: The original description for the Mammoth Pictures Studio logo was more reminiscent of the old RKO and Universal Pictures from the late twenties and early thirties and significantly different from the screen version. At what point did you have the ingenious idea of actually using a mammoth?
RUSS: When we couldn’t clear the original homage. I think I’ve mentioned before the legal minefield of clearance.
DAMIAN: It’s not actually Cavendish though is it?
RUSS: Doubtless an antecedent.
Production designer Paul Cripps designed and built the Mammoth Pictures Studio logo; basically carving an iceberg from poly, bought a Mammoth which he then painted and sprayed. The background was also painted and then he simply stuck both the iceberg and mammoth on a turntable.
DAMIAN: This treasure must surely be proudly housed safely behind glass at Mammoth Screen?
RUSS: Like the Anglia knight? Alas. I haven’t seen it around the office.
Brings back memories.
DAMIAN: I think I get that W.P. Mayhew was the drunken writer in Barton Fink, (Max) Von Mayerling was the silent movie director turned butler from Sunset Boulevard but is Meriam C. Denham a composite of King Kong director and producer Merian C. Cooper and the Carl Denham character from the same film?
RUSS: Full marks.
DAMIAN: And accompanying those opening film credits, we hear Matthew Slater’s music score. Now, Matt has been doing a fantastic job as composer for most of the last couple of years or so -I think PREY was his first full score?- but CARTOUCHE was simply stunning wasn’t it and almost indistinguishable from a big Hollywood film soundtrack?
RUSS: Matt’s an extraordinary talent, and his scores are a joy. His work has spared our blushes on many an occasion.
DAMIAN: There’s been some great scores for horror and fantasy films such as Max Steiner’s work on King Kong, music for the Universal Monster Cycle of the 30s and 40s by composers like Paul Dessau, Hans J. Salter, Frank Skinner and Franz Waxman, in addition to the various artists, perhaps most notably James Bernard, who scored the Hammer films. I’m wondering if you listened to any of these while writing CARTOUCHE or discussed them with Matt as reference points because there’s definitely a Hammer influence in his score isn’t there?
RUSS: Yeh, we talked about Waxman, and James Bernard.
DAMIAN: It’s perhaps no coincidence that amongst Valdemar’s credits, Buddy and Louie Meet the Pharaoh is mentioned because of all the various costumes and makeup designs for the character over the years, the one in CARTOUCHE most resembles the one in (Budd) Abbott and (Lou) Costello Meet the Mummy. Was this slightly low budget design the look you were going for?
RUSS: Kind of. The Hammers also started to look a bit ragged – no pun intended – very quickly. It was meant to invoke something of a B-picture, knocked out very quickly, and on a limited budget. But Andy – our director – had a lot of fun with it.
DAMIAN: Despite having the most iconic makeup design, I’ve always found Karloff’s The Mummy to be a little slow and stagey much like Dracula as opposed to more cinematic masterpieces from Universal such Bride of Frankenstein, and actually much prefer Hammer’s The Mummy. Do you have a favourite?
RUSS: A favourite Universal or a favourite Hammer – or a favourite Mummy? I’m with you on Bride all the way.
DAMIAN: I meant a favourite Mummy. In comparison to other gothic literary characters such as Dracula, Frankenstein’s monster, Jekyll and Hyde etc., the Mummy is possibly the least interesting and I just wondered from a writers perspective, which film you thought provided the most engaging characterisation?
RUSS: Bubba Ho Tep. I suppose the first two Brendan Fraser/Rachel Weisz Mummy pictures. And of those two, the second probably gives you the biggest window on Imhotep’s history, doesn’t it? But – let’s be frank – as a franchise, it’s never been particularly deep, has it? I don’t think I mind the Karloff as much as you do. It is pretty slow, but it does set down all the key lore. Probably the least said about the latest incarnation the better.
Boris Karloff in The Mummy (1932)
Christopher Lee in The Mummy (1959)
DAMIAN: After the success of individual horror character franchises such as Dracula, Frankenstein and the Wolf Man, Universal created a shared universe for these classic monsters. Now, considering that these films are meant to follow on from each other, it’s rather bizarre that Lionel Atwill is cast in so many and yet plays completely different characters including Inspector Krogh (Son of Frankenstein), Doctor Theodore Bohmer (The Ghost of Frankenstein), the Mayor (Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man), Inspector Arnz (House of Frankenstein) and Inspector Holtz (House of Dracula). Regardless, with the nod to his name in the script and the character with the one arm, why has the memory of Atwill endured perhaps more than other supporting Universal character players such as my personal favourite, Dwight Frye?
RUSS: I think – as you say – it was probably Atwill’s presence in so many different incarnations that guaranteed his immortality. Ah – Dwight Frye. Will Dwight Frye make you Frye of Dwight?!
Lionel AtwillDwight Frye in this magnificent publicity still for Dracula (1931)
DAMIAN: I suppose in a similar vein to the Carry On films and other beloved institutes, Universal and Hammer had a repertoire of supporting roles players which we don’t quite see to the same extent in contemporary productions. Do you think that, in always striving to prove their versatility and avoid typecasting, it’s a pity we no longer enjoy character actors in the same way anymore?
RUSS: Well, a Hammer never really felt like a Hammer without the appropriately named Michael Ripper, did it? I just don’t think we make things the same way. The world changes. But I’m very grateful we’ve still got all those wonderful films, and those regular faces to enjoy.
Michael Ripper who possibly appeared in more Hammer films than any other actor.
DAMIAN: And the Hammer Horrors featured many glamourous scream queens such as Valerie Leon and Ingrid Pitt but Veronica Carlson must still be a favourite who you mentioned in one of our early interviews and gets a nod in CARTOUCHE as Veronique Carlton. In your opinion, why is she the epitome of the 60s Hammer and British Horror scream queen?
RUSS: I think it’s that she pulled off that extraordinary back to back double in ‘68 and ‘69 with the Count and then the Baron. Dracula Has Risen from the Gravy — and Frankenstein Must be Dismayed.
Veronica Carlson Veronique Carlton
DAMIAN: Apart from Bela Lugosi who died in 1956, which of the iconic horror actors would you have liked to have cast as Emil Valdemar if CARTOUCHE was actually made in the year in which it was set?
RUSS: Well — we were thinking about Bogdanovich’s Targets a lot – which was a big jumping off point for the story. So – it was Karloff the Uncanny, all the way. It would have had to be someone British and old enough to have served in the Great War.
Targets (1968) Boris Karloff is so scary he even makes himself jump.
DAMIAN: As always, there’s so many references in the episode such as Fu Manchu, the Corman/Price cycle and Poe more generally, that we can’t possibly discuss them all, although I thought the nod to Lauren Bacall (Betty Perske/Persky) was particularly lovely because she was actually a theatre usher in real life wasn’t she?
RUSS: Exactly that.
An early photo of Betty
DAMIAN: It was wonderful to see Thursday in such a (rare) good mood reminiscing about the cinema of his childhood although I was less impressed with Endeavour’s response – is he only interested in watching Ingmar Bergman films and -much later in life- Last Tango in Paris?
RUSS: Colin didn’t really give us much of a steer on his cinematic interests. But Endeavour’s recollection of Saturday Morning Pictures are mine. I’m not sure if it made the cut – but his invocation of Dante made Damien Timmer chuckle, which always pleases me.
DAMIAN: Yes it did, something about all that screaming in the dark. However, for someone who consistently shows such a reverence in their writing for classic cinema, I’m somewhat surprised and confused by such negative recollections of Saturday Morning Pictures. I would have thought you would have more in common with Thursday than Endeavour in this regard?
RUSS: Endeavour’s recollections are perhaps not unsurprisingly my recollection of the one and only trip I made to the Granada, St.John’s Hill for Saturday Morning Pictures. I can still hear the screaming.
DAMIAN: Starting with Carol this series, Endeavour begins his Casanova phase which I had a few problems with and hope to debate in a future interview, however, can you not think of a nice young lady to introduce to Strange for a change?
RUSS: Well — we have seen him out on a double-date with Endeavour – to a Horror Double Bill appropriately enough. Well — I look forward to discussing Endeavour’s Casanova phase. A one night stand with the least appropriate young woman imaginable – and a meaningful few months with Claudine, of whom he had hopes. Some Casanova phase. Surely such Homework would warrant, ‘Must try harder!’ in the margin?
DAMIAN: And speaking of other halves, Bright is eating alone in the restaurant because his wife is otherwise engaged yet again! Come on now Russ, this is getting quite ridiculous unless Reginald has perhaps buried her under the patio or keeping her well-preserved mummified corpse in the fruit cellar?
RUSS: It’s been quite fun keeping people guessing about Mrs.Bright. We shall see.
DAMIAN: Towards the end of the episode, Charlie says ‘You’re the best of us, Fred’, to which Thursday replies, ‘The best of us never came home’. Earlier, when reminiscing about Saturday morning matinees as a child, Thursday mentions to Endeavour that he’d go in first and then ‘spring the window in the Gents for Chas and Billy’. Can you tell us more about Billy, presumably the youngest of the three Thursday brothers, or is this perhaps something you might elaborate on in a future story?
RUSS: There is a story that tells us more about Billy – but whether we will get to make it is doubtful. The exchange rate has taken a bit of a hit since I first had it in mind — and probably rules it out.
DAMIAN: You make the parallels between ex-Detective Sergeant Ronald Beavis and Endeavour quite explicit with similar characters traits and shared interests including a passion for opera; the two even have the same Rosalind Calloway performance of La Traviata LP – oh, just out of curiosity, why were you so specific in the script that the record not have her image on the sleeve?
RUSS: Was I? I think I just wanted to avoid the LP Endeavour had signed in the very first film also being owned by Beavis. As if it were the ONLY Rosalind Calloway recording in existence.
DAMIAN: Anyway, after leaving the museum at the end of the episode, there’s a discussion of the parallels between Beavis and Endeavour and Thursday says ‘he’d no family to keep him on the straight. Lot to be said for family’, to which Endeavour replies, ‘What if you don’t have one? Is that how you finish your days? Alone in some two-bob kip with nothing but a bottle for company?’. Thursday ends the discussion with, ‘That was his future. Not yours. You’ll make better choices’. First of all, does Thursday really believe this, and secondly, would he, if not really approve, then reluctantly give his consent -at this particular moment in time at least- if such choices included Joan?
RUSS: I don’t think there’s any reason for Fred to think Endeavour won’t make better choices. His first thought would be of Joan’s happiness. If being with Endeavour made her happy, then I’m sure Thursday would be behind her all the way.
DAMIAN: Of course, we know how it ends for Endeavour, but the way the scene is written suggests that he does too. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that loneliness is a subjective experience. For someone like Endeavour with all his emotional baggage and psychological damage, his loneliness and estrangement might foster a self-defeating attitude in that the more he marginalises himself, the more his protracted loneliness intensifies, and becomes increasingly difficult to break free from such a mindset that negatively influences his perception of relationships making him more pessimistic as to their outcome (as might be the case with Joan or Susan Fallon for that matter). To what extent would you agree with all this and has Endeavour -again, at this point in the story- accepted his fate or is he simply just a miserable sod?
RUSS: No – I don’t think he’s accepted his fate at all at this point. Did he ever? He always seemed optimistic when pursuing romance. In this instance, I think Endeavour was rattled by finding some similarities with Beavis – primarily, the music – and beyond that, the want of family. And, of course, he was an ex-copper.
DAMIAN: And so without further delay or cancellation, we arrive at possibly one of the most beautifully shot films of this or any other series of Endeavour. You’ve often found inspiration from poetry during the conception and development of characters such as Thursday (Henry Reed’s Lessons of the War – Naming of Parts in particular) and Bright (Betjeman’s Subaltern’s Love Song), so I’m wondering if there’s any deeper significance to your inclusion of WH Auden’s Night Mail in PASSENGER beyond the theme of trains?
RUSS: Well – all credit to Jim Field Smith and DoP Jamie Cairney. For my part, it was just an early memory of a re-run of the 1936 documentary that ends with the verse. The British Documentary Film Movement is an endless source of wonder and inspiration. But ‘Night Mail’… probably melts a bit into the train journey in ‘I Know Where I’m Going’. Trains – particularly the old steamers – have an innate air of romance, mystery and – for our purposes – danger. That ‘The sigh of midnight trains in empty stations’ makes the list of ‘These Foolish Things’ is no accident. The Orient Express. The Blue Train. The 4:50 From Paddington. All aboard!
DAMIAN: Interestingly, Auden was addicted to the crime genre and had some very particular opinions about it which shaped the poem, Detective Story, and an essay on the subject, The Guilty Vicarage, in which he makes a series of observations while deconstructing the Whodunit formula including the discourse between good and evil, the ethical and eristic conflict between Us and Them and the dialectics of innocence and guilt, while also identifying its five essential elements: milieu, victim, murderer, suspects and detectives. Perhaps even more than Sherlock Holmes’ more cosmopolitan and diverse Victorian London for example, I wonder if it’s milieu that’s particularly applicable to the Morse Universe if we view Oxford as a kind of garden of Eden in which the various sins don’t necessarily attract evil to the city, but instead reveal the evil that already inhabits the dreaming spires hiding under the gown of piousness and respectability?
RUSS: ‘As the milieu told its tale…’ I think much of Auden’s take on the Whodunit applies particularly to the Golden Age and the notion of Mayhem Parva. It probably starts to break down when applied to Bay City. Oxford as a Garden of Eden? I guess I’m with you about the frailties of human nature residing there already – rather than something that arrives with an interloper. (Though that may change…) But no more or less than any other town of a like size. Don’t be fooled for a moment by the architecture. Or by the trappings of academe. The pursuit of knowledge for its own sake. A juicy and coveted Chair is just as likely to be pursued, as is the wife or daughter of another don. Clixby Bream come on down! That’s one of the many things Colin did so well in the novels. And he knew that world better than most. Where abideth man, there abideth sin.
Richard Briers as Sir Clixby Bream in the original Morse: Death is Now My Neighbour
DAMIAN: And perhaps Endeavour represents this loss of innocence more acutely than either Inspector Morse or Lewis ever did?
RUSS: Yes, I think that’s fair to say. We have a much younger protagonist. And a romantic to boot. He was always going to have much further to fall. But I think that one of the things about his older incarnation is some part of that hope still remains. That’s what lends it its melancholy. And, of course, it’s what redeems him.
DAMIAN: One aspect of Auden’s musings on the detective story that certainly can’t be applied to Endeavour is that the characters are not changed in or by their actions. Indeed, reflecting on the heartbreak and misery frequently bestowed upon Endeavour and Joan for example, how far are you willing to go in putting your loyal and loving audience on a downer?
RUSS: Does it bring the audience down, do you think? One of the great, unlooked for delights of writing this thing has been charting the push and pull of those binary stars. Who knew?
I don’t know about putting the audience on a downer, but how far am I willing to go with telling that story? All the way. Always.
EXT. JOAN’S FLAT/ROOF – DAY
JOAN clambers up through a skylight onto the roof. ENDEAVOUR follows. By the time he’s out and into the daylight, with the resultant queasiness of realisation that he’s up high. JOAN is at the edge, looking out over OXFORD.
JOAN: It was the view I fell in love with.
ENDEAVOUR’S POV: JOAN against a backdrop of magic hour Oxford – a sky of pink and pearl.
ENDEAVOUR: Yes.
A world contained in a single word. If his heart were to stop now, it would be enough. To die in the moment of perfection. Like…
ENDEAVOUR (cont’d): Cherry blossom.
His whisper lost on the breeze.
JOAN: You can’t see from there. Come closer.
ENDEAVOUR: This is as close as I get.
And it is. And ever will be.
ENDEAVOUR (cont’d): Come back now.
And it is. And ever will be.
JOAN: Scared of heights?
ENDEAVOUR: Not heights. Just falling…
DAMIAN: Fans may occasionally debate the merits of certain plot points and the motivation of various suspects or perpetrators but there can be little doubt that scenes such as this clearly demonstrate your transcendent and unrivalled talent for consistently writing characters in a detective drama that we all care about so very deeply. Knowing that you will almost certainly deflect the compliment in your now familiar self-effacing and reticent maner, I challenge you to give me an example of just one other detective drama written for TV that consistently delivers both the mystery and emotion of Endeavour.
RUSS: I don’t watch enough to have a representative sample upon which to draw. But, I think if all we were doing was constructing a puzzle for the audience to solve, it would be a very dreary exercise. A much bigger conversation probably, but, ‘Why write at all?’ Why tell stories? It’s about making a connection, isn’t it? One heart speaking to another. I think if you’re going to do it at all, then you have to be prepared to go all in. The audience can sniff out fakery at 500 yards. You might be dressing something up in slightly different clothes, or presenting it at one or more remove — but the initial impulse – the thing you’re having these characters saying – has to come from something real.
The plot and the whodunit are hugely important – but it’s the emotional beats that I suspect will outlast the conundrum. “All the feels”, as I believe the young people have it. Like the man said, “Nobody goes home whistling the scenery”.
DAMIAN: And then you almost go and spoil it all by following such a beautiful scene by having Claudine appear and Endeavour lighting a cigarette for her which I have two problems with: firstly, although I understand that one of the functions of the scene was Joan wanting to introduce Endeavour to someone who might look after him, doesn’t the smile he gives Claudine show his instant attraction to her despite having literally just walked away from Joan only seconds earlier and somewhat undermine his passion and love for Joan and all the pink, pearl and cherry blossom?
RUSS: C’est la vie, mon vieux.
DAMIAN: The second aspect was Endeavour lighting her cigarette; why would he even be carrying a lighter when he doesn’t smoke? – yet!
RUSS: You will recall Thursday’s advice to Trewlove concerning cigarettes. We forget now – in these more health conscious times – the social connection and conviviality that was part of the theatre of nicotine. “Cigarette?” was a great ice-breaker. An instant connection. For a detective dealing with those who have witnessed terrible things – to be able to offer a cigarette to someone ‘in shock’ was considered at the very least an act of kindness. Likewise – in interview, with a suspect or indeed the guilty party – the bestowal or withholding of tobacco – is a tool in the box. For Endeavour to be tootling about without a box of smokes would be a bit of a shortcoming.
DAMIAN: In response to my question in our last interview regarding how much longer the show could continue, you said that there’s a little way to go yet, but, you are starting to say goodbye. Therefore, given there’s a few other characters from the original series yet to make an appearance, I wonder if there’s still time to see Endeavour and Susan Fallon reunited and if so, is there even enough room for yet another doomed relationship – I mean how many great, ill-fated loves can one man have?
RUSS: I think it unlikely we’ll see Susan Fallon. The Prime Directive is all. Yet another doomed relationship? Well — given where we found him in ‘87 and left him at the end of century, one might argue that ALL his relationships were doomed. How many great, ill-fated loves can one man have? I’ll have to get back to you on that one.
Enter — DI RONNIE BOX, (30s), a young thief-taker, and DS PATRICK DAWSON, (30s), a mordant, humourless, career copper – a young Kenneth Colley.
BRIGHT: Ah. Perfect timing.
DAMIAN: Why now in this particular episode and what does Dawson’s relationship with Box say about his character here and in his future incarnation?
RUSS: There is perhaps more to tell on that score. We shall see if room is available.
DAMIAN: Unlike the antagonist DS Peter Jakes who audiences eventually began to warm to, there can’t be any such redemption for a character as despicable as DI Ronnie Box can there?
RUSS: Well, that’s the question, isn’t it?
DAMIAN: Was his introduction here planned to set up the character (and storylines) as a regular for the sixth series?
RUSS: Box certainly played into the evolution of the Sixth Series.
DAMIAN: I think we may have spoke about the use of clichéd and stereotypical archetypes before and how they can be both useful -especially in detective stories in terms of misdirecting the audience- but also dangerous for a writer. In retrospect, do you think that a stuttering trainspotter who still lives with his mother was a bit much?
RUSS: Clearly not. One might as well be hung for a sheep. The major story here concerned… well – it’s not possible to set down what it concerned without spoilers. But, one thing that did horrify me was a suggestion that one was presenting a character on the autistic spectrum. I’d grant ‘English eccentric’ and ‘flawed and malignant personality’- but when it comes to autism nothing could have been further from our intentions. A moment’s thought about that – given some of the things we’ve done elsewhere in the show – and I’d hope anyone would realise that, if such was indeed our intent, then we’d never engineer such a crass depiction.
DAMIAN: Did you ever have a train set?
RUSS: I did. Hornby. But like South West Trains, I could never get it to run properly.
DAMIAN: Some lovely cultural references again in this episode such as Norborough Station (60s Avengers) but I would have put money on nods to The Signal-man or Brief Encounter – did I miss them?
RUSS: We are ever constrained by what can be delivered. I had wanted to use the original location for The Signalman – but it lay far beyond our reach. ‘Hallo! Below there!’ Brief Encounter… I don’t know if it made the cut – but I’m pretty sure we’ve nodded to ‘taking books back to Boots’ elsewhere.
DAMIAN: I could have understood Bates Motel (indeed, there’s a slight reference: ‘Twenty-four chalets, twenty-four vacancies’) but bloody Crossroads Motel! You’ve given us countless tales that witness your fanaticism for Tony Hancock, Carry On films and The Beatles but why on earth would you even think of paying homage to such a decrepit piece of soap opera history?
RUSS: Damien Timmer is very fond of Crossroads, and was very keen to honour it. Lest we forget, when Miss Diane left Kings Oak, she tipped up in… of all places… a certain city of dreaming spires. Easy to knock, of course — but it once commanded huge audiences, and the viewing nation hung spellbound on the fate of Meg and Sandy and Jill, and all the rest
But as always with Endeavour, one might imagine it to be A Crossroads, rather than necessarily THE Crossroads. We rationalised it – kind of – thus, that once, perhaps, Hazel Adair and Peter Ling had taken a wrong turn on a lonely highway and ended up at our Crossroads, which had in turn inspired them to create their Crossroads.
You are right about Bates Motel, of course. In fact, I think in the original iteration of the script there was an extended night driving sequence for Endeavour before he arrived. Alas, time and budget, and poor man’s process, wait for no man. But I clearly thought it would have been funnier if we’d laid in a longer build-up to the reveal of his destination.
DAMIAN: And a certain Mrs. Turtle is referenced in the script and briefly seen on screen at the reception desk who looked remarkably similar to Ann George. Like Veronica Carlson, please tell me she wasn’t another one of your boyhood crushes?
RUSS: I worked at ATV in Brum for some time in the early 70s — and we would often see the stars from Crossroad in the canteen, or heading into studio. Ann George was quite glamorous in a furs and bling way – but, no, she never caught my imagination in quite the same way as Miss Carlson.
DAMIAN: What can you tell us about the second film of series 6, APOLLO?
RUSS: Er, well — Shaun’s directed it. And a very fine job he’s done, too. William Goldman’s advice was ‘Give the star everything.’ So – I hope the moon will suffice. Seriously – it’s quite spooky the way it worked out. Of all the films in all the series in all the world that he could have directed…
I’m sure I’ll have much more to say about it at a later date, but we were blessed to be joined on this film by Stephen La Riviere and his wonderfully talented team at Century 21. He brought with him some absolute pioneers of British film and television. So, for a couple of days, our pretend past reached out across half a century and joined hands with those who had lived the real thing. It also marks (and will remain) my only onscreen appearance in Endeavour, and proves that sometimes one’s childhood dreams really can come true.
Damian and Russ meet for their very first interview at a Japanese Monster Convention
DAMIAN: Given all the stars who appeared there during the sixties such as The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Dusty Springfield, Jimmy Clitheroe, Sid James and Arthur Askey for example, Blackpool must have been an exciting place to grow up?
CAROLINE: Our house was FULL of Marvin Gaye, Dianna Ross and The Four Tops, soul music. I was lucky enough to see Dianna Ross at the Opera House in 1976 when I was 15, amazing! Blackpool was a fabulous place to be and I was lucky to see many artist as a teenager: The Sex Pistols, The Clash, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Kate Bush as well as Genesis and Led Zeppelin – the 70s were amazing and I was going to concerts all the time.
DAMIAN: Do you think this influenced your decision to work in show business?
CAROLINE: I don’t think so. I sort of ended up doing drama by default. I had been pretty lax at studying for my O Levels and my mum said I had to get some qualifications. So I went along to St Anne’s College and, among other subjects, I did Drama. Life changing. It was an incredible Drama Course and my head was turned. No looking back, that was what I wanted to do. Some fabulous actors have been through that course – David Thewlis and John Simm to name a couple.
DAMIAN: In addition to your work in theatre, you’ve had a prolific career in television appearing in Coronation Street, A Touch of Frost, Waking the Dead, EastEnders, Whitechapel, Happy Valley, Doc Martin and Last Tango in Halifax to name but a few. As you look back on all these productions, I wonder which you feel most proud of or have especially fond memories working on?
CAROLINE: I have to say Coronation Street, not so much for my work on it, but for the fact that growing up we watched it all the time, it was huge. The feeling of walking into the Granada building in Manchester, and being on such an iconic show was amazing. Doc Martin was a dream as everyone, particularly Martin, was a joy. Getting to play an addict, like Lynn Dewhurst in Happy Valley, is a really exciting challenge for any actor, and I loved getting my teeth into such an extreme character. The York Realist at the Royal Court Theatre, London, was maybe my proudest theatre moment. It was a hugely successful production and I made a life long friend in Anne Reid – who’s a huge Endeavour fan!
DAMIAN: I’m curious about your first appearance in the world of Colin Dexter with Lewis. Russell Lewis wrote some of the episodes including that all important first one, how do you think his vision of contemporary Oxford compares to the period Endeavour?
CAROLINE: Russell manages to recreate a whole new world in Endeavour through the tone and language of his scripts. He writes the period like no one else could. And it’s the harmonious relationship between the writing and the fantastic costume and set designs that bring 60s Oxford to life in the show.
And the Moonbeams Kiss the Sea
DAMIAN: Since the introduction of Win, Joan and Sam during the first series, to what extent do you think that the Thursdays were a surrogate for Endeavour in the absence of a loving family of his own?
CAROLINE: In the early seasons when everyone was at home, and we had all those lovely bustling breakfasts and dinners, Endeavour would arrive to pick up Fred… oh yes I do feel he had a little yearning for that. Win is such a warm and maternal character, I think she felt Endeavour needed looking after at times. She was also always aware that Fred had an almost paternal, protective relationship with Endeavour, and wanted to help nurture that.
I also think that from the first visit, Endeavour enjoyed coming round because there was that immediate chemistry between Joan and himself – I think Win picked up on that straight away.
DAMIAN: For the first few years at least, until Sam joined the army and Joan went AWOL, I suspect that, like Endeavour, Sunday-night viewers savoured the respite from grisly murders for just a few minutes to enjoy the comfort and cosiness of the Thursday family enjoying a meal round the table or sharing a box of chocolates while watching TV together on the sofa. Given the lovely chemistry between Roger, Sara, Jack and yourself, did you as an actor also feel a certain sense of loss?
CAROLINE: I always feel how lucky I am to be in this show and a part of the Thursday family, they’re all such lovely actors, and it did just work so well on set. I certainly miss having them around. Their leaving home also coincided with both my daughters leaving home, one off to University and the other to Boarding School, and you do grieve the change, the quiet… the sense of loss as your role as a parent changes, so playing Win became quite poignant. It would be fabulous to have all the Thursdays back for some celebration together before the final episode… Russell?
DAMIAN: And of course even you left, leaving poor old Fred alone at the end of last series because he loaned (and lost) a large portion of their retirement money to his brother, Charlie. I can understand that Win would have liked to have had a say in the matter but wouldn’t she have said no anyway?
CAROLINE: Truly, I believe Win would go with what Fred had wanted to do in the end. Though she does hold her own – she would have put up a fight and tried to talk him out of it, definitely! I imagine they might have negotiated how much to give him too. I think her disappointment in this awful situation was the secrecy and deceit – family means everything to Win – which is why I do think she would have ultimately wanted to help Charlie. But at the centre of the Thursday family is trust and honesty, both of which were tested in that situation.
DAMIAN: And was it selfish of Win to want Fred to give up coppering so they can compete dance competitions?
CAROLINE: Win has stood by Fred through twenty-seven years of coppering and I think she felt it was time to have something else in their lives. Not just for her, for both of them. It was something he enjoyed too. I think if things had turned out differently with Charlie, who knows…
DAMIAN: Given the fact that many of your scenes are set in the Thursday kitchen or dining room, was it something of a lovely surprise to read the script and see you would be ballroom dancing?
CAROLINE: My goodness yes! I don’t think Win had been out of the house for five films! -I may be slightly exaggerating there- but it was fabulous to have the opportunity to explore another side to their characters. And Roger is a wonderful dance partner. It was a really fun little project.
DAMIAN: What was Roger’s reaction and can you tell me a little bit about the two of you rehearsing the choreography?
CAROLINE: I think Roger was as surprised and delighted as I was! Particularly at the level of competition we had reached. It was great fun to film, but important it looked good – a bit of a challenge as neither of us had ballroom danced before! So we went off to a studio for a few hours and the marvellous, patient, Sally and friend, they were both brilliant in making us look good, took us through the routines and filmed them so we could practice in our kitchens
THURSDAY: (soaking in the view) God, I love this place. You should’ve seen their faces – Win and the kids – [when] I brought ‘em here for the first time. We’d been two-up, back to back in the Smoke. Outside lav. One cold tap. Mind – Win kept it spotless. Spotless. (a moment) ‘Is this Heaven, Dad?’ Joan. You know. Little face looking up. Those blue eyes. Couldn’t believe somewhere like this existed. Not after bomb-sites and soot. Was like we’d stepped out of black and white and into colour.
-SERIES 5, FILM 6: ICARUS
DAMIAN: I remember discussing the relationship between Endeavour and Joan a few years ago with Russ when I asked him at what point he decided that they’d fall for each other and he replied, ‘From the moment I had her open the door to him for the first time’. Not only beautiful, but it also shows what foresight and understanding he has for the characters. Did you ever discuss Fred and Win’s history with Russ prior to their move to Oxford?
CAROLINE: I think Russel has an extraordinary ability to write for individual characters, little idiosyncrasies and mannerism in their speech and behaviour carry so much story. And coming back to Win each series has always felt like putting on comfortable shoes. I think he had a clear idea of where he was taking Fred and Win and it was always exciting to see the journey. Moving to the house in Oxford is quite symbolic of what it means to be a Thursday family member really, they worked hard to achieve what they did and have that to show for it. It’s the simple things in life that matter most to Win – her family, her home.
THURSDAY: A policeman’s lot is not a happy one, I’m told. But the lot of a policeman’s wife hardly gets a mention. But while I’ve been out running around, nabbing villains and generally playing silly buggers… the real brains of the outfit has made a house a home, raised two children, our children. Seen ‘em off to school each morning, clean and smart. And somehow, even with all that to do, there’s always been a hot meal for me when I get home. Twenty-five years ago I got the best bit of luck any man ever had. The toast is… my Win.
-SERIES 2, FILM 4: SWAY
DAMIAN: One of my favourite storylines is from SWAY in which Thursday is reunited with his old war sweetheart, Luisa Armstrong. Do you think he would have continued to see her in secret had she not committed suicide?
CAROLINE: Mine too Damian, I loved working with Andy Wilson on that episode and the anniversary scene was so great. You’re aware that some scenes get cut from the final episode, and this is a case in point. Russell had written a wonderful scene where you saw Win’s strength and tenacity. Win actually spoke to Luisa and made it clear she was not going anywhere and neither was her and Fred’s relationship.
I don’t believe he would have continued to see her, Win is his one true love. We can all see the past through rose tinted glasses, and first loves will always hold a special place in one’s heart, but I don’t think he would risk losing Win.
THURSDAY: We were friends once.
LUISA: That’s the last thing we were. Friendship takes time. What did we have? Two months? Three? If that. There wasn’t room for friendship too.
THURSDAY: Don’t tell me. I was there. I remember everything. Everything. Every moment like nothing before or since. It’s here. Still. Forever. The scent of the pines. The sun on the water. So vivid. And you. All above everything, I remember you.
LUISA: Don’t.
THURSDAY: Your eyes.
LUISA: You can’t say these things. You can’t, not to me.
THURSDAY: I’ve no-one else to say them to.
DAMIAN: Do you think Fred betrayed Win with words such as these?
CAROLINE: The relationship Fred had with Luisa was something extremely special at a time when the whole world was being torn apart in the war. He obviously felt deeply for Luisa, and he reminisces here about it. But I think he truly loves Win and, free of the pressures of fleeting, war-torn romance, their love is completely different. Those memories are real, but so are the many memories he has with Win: having children buying a home, sharing the last piece of cake on a Sunday afternoon – that’s real Thursday love!
DAMIAN: And in Luisa’s words, ‘Every life holds one great love. One name to hold onto at the end. One face to take into the dark’. No marriage is easy, but despite their ups and downs, it’ll still be Win’s face that Fred takes into the dark with him won’t it?
CAROLINE: Oh yes, they’re soul mates and have gone through thick and thin together.
DAMIAN: One last question because Russ won’t tell me, so I’m hoping you can finally reveal what Fred has on his Wednesday sandwich?
