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THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2020: RUSSELL LEWIS PART III

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An exclusive Endeavour interview with writer/deviser/executive producer Russell Lewis

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2020

EXT. CHIGTON GREEN/POST OFFICE/ROAD – DAY 1

The CHIGTON GREEN CLOCK – telling the time. Never too quickly. Never too slowly. Telling the time for Chigton…

A SIGN for: “CHIGTON GREEN” Here the green. There the duckpond. Shops. Butcher, baker, candlestick maker. Fishmongers. Post Office.

Well-tended houses and gardens. Garden gnome – fishing…

CONFECTION (S6:E3)

Trumptonshire: Camberwick Green, Chigley and Trumpton

DAMIAN: This opening to CONFECTION was filmed with idyllic shots of the quaint village including a white picket fence adorned with red roses and the overture ends with Farmer Bell shooting Mandy-Jane with a shotgun. I wasn’t quite sure if I was watching Endeavour, an episode of Trumpton or David Lynch’s Blue Velvet. What mood were you and the director going for with this?

RUSS: Um… I think the picket fence was Leanne’s choice, as were the red roses. The Lynch probably more in her mind than mine – but I loved what she did with it. My only regret is that we ended up with the Roy Orbison and not her first choice. I love Roy Orbison — but the other track she ran with almost through to lock was a bit more kitsch and camp and torchy. A vocalist in the Kay Starr tradition… ‘Accused of stealing kisses, I’m guilty of the charge…’

DAMIAN: Preceding the scene where Endeavour meets Isla Fairford for the first time, you write that he ‘takes a moment – soaks up the atmosphere’ of the village which represents ‘a world and a life he left behind’. Not only is Isla obviously very attractive, but to what extent is Endeavour also attracted to the “notion” or “idea” of her and, rather ironically of course, the innocence she might represent in his longing for simpler times or the fact that he ‘grew up somewhere just like this’?

RUSS: What we were reaching for was a dull ache in his heart for somewhere – and more specifically – “someone” to call his own.

DAMIAN: Regarding the character of Isla, your script references Middlesex, a poem by Betjeman, with the following quotes: ‘Fair Elaine, the bobby-soxer, fresh complexioned with Innoxa… well-cut Windsmoor… Jacqmar scarf of mauve and green’. What was it about this poem that resonated with the character of Isla?

RUSS: Well — we were smashing together Christie, Trumptonshire, and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang in our creative Hadron Collider… and, you remember those wonderful illustrations across the opening of the Hickson Miss Marple?

The characters feel very late 40s through 50s. Actually – a touch of Long Weekend in there also. Mayhem Parva preserved in aspic. But there’s something sly about the eyes of all of them. And the Betjeman seemed to chime very happily as a short-hand for the kind of young woman she presents to the world. I think also – there’s a tiny echo of Barbara Shelley in Village of the Damned. Maybe a bit of Truly Scrumptious too. We were playing around a little with a Christie classic.

DAMIAN: In the Endeavour and Isla duck pond scene you write a line of action in the script that reads ‘One lonely heart lurches towards another.’ Obviously deceiving the audience is part of the game in murder mysteries but in reference to the cast and crew, do your scripts always tell the “truth” about a character or is there an equal objective to surprise those at the readthrough as well?

RUSS: Not the readthrough so much, as anyone’s first reading. By the time we get to that – most people are familiar with it. You want to convey in the stage directions the same experience the viewer will have when they see it for the first time. Physically and emotionally.

DAMIAN: The scenes ends with Endeavour asking Isla out on a date: ‘Look, I’m not really in the habit of, uh… – I just wondered if – perhaps – you’d care to go for a drink somewhere later… (a moment) With me.’ Is this supposed to be ironic considering Endeavour is exactly in the habit of falling for and attempting to romance wrong’uns?

RUSS: I think it reflects where he is at that point in his head. He’s not firing on all cylinders. He’s wounded emotionally. And a part of him has a fantasy of turning his back on the fight. Isla and her little boy are like a ready made, off the shelf family. He’s a weakness for those he perceives as vulnerable – so, of course, he’s drawn to her. Having failed to save his mother, he is compelled to try to save everyone else. As if in doing so, he might bring her back. It’s a nonsense – and childlike magic thinking, and I’m sure it’s all subconscious. But there’s a truth to the psychology of it.

ENDEAVOUR: I met someone. She’s got a kid. A boy. Five years old. It could be – I don’t know – something. (off STRANGE) Why not? Everybody else gets a shot – why should I be any different?

STRANGE: Because you are.

ENDEAVOUR: What if I don’t want to be? Isn’t that what it’s supposed to be about? Something to come home to.

STRANGE: I wouldn’t know. Some day. Maybe.

DAMIAN: Isn’t it about time for a strange bedfellow?

RUSS: Ho ho. Well — we’ve seen him on a date, haven’t we? I think he gets by. But there’s nobody special at the moment.

Back in NOCTURNE (S2:E2)

INT. THURSDAY’S OFFICE/POLICE STATION – DAY 4

ENDEAVOUR with THURSDAY…

THURSDAY: What’s this you were with Shepherd’s daughter at the pub?

ENDEAVOUR: It was just a drink.

THURSDAY: She’s a suspect. Christ, what’s the matter with you? Bat their lashes and you’re just…

ENDEAVOUR: I’ve got a life.

THURSDAY: Not on duty, you haven’t.

ENDEAVOUR: I wasn’t on duty.

THURSDAY: It shouldn’t matter. A copper’s a copper – first, last and always.

ENDEAVOUR: And where’s that got you?

THURSDAY – a kicked dog. Torn between shame and the urge to lash out. ENDEAVOUR instantly regrets the shot.

DAMIAN: Thursday lost all the money he lent to his brother, Charlie, there’s the marriage breakdown, the death of Fancy and then, of course, there was also the demotion. Was it the misadventures in his home or work life that was the final straw?

RUSS: I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at? In Thursday crossing the line? Oh – I think all of those things. He’s in a mess.

INT. PUB 2 – NIGHT 3

BOX: After the way they’ve treated you? I wouldn’t treat a dog like that. Christ, you must’ve noticed a change in your pay-packet? And you’ve still got a wife and kids to feed. (off THURSDAY) What’s next? They put you out to grass on some nothing job like old Reg? A man’s got his dignity, Fred – or he’s got nothing. Doesn’t make you a bad copper. Just makes you a smart one. Go on. Take the missus out this weekend. Treat her.

THURSDAY breaks. He reaches out – takes the envelope, and puts it into his pocket. BOX relieved.

BOX (CONT’D): Blimey. A minute there, you had me giving it two-bob, thrupenny bit.

THURSDAY: You and me both.

BOX: To be fair. I was no different the first time. Second time, you barely feel it. After that, it’s all gravy. Go on, then. Get ‘em in.

THURSDAY – his soul forfeit.

DAMIAN: As you are very well aware, fans have wondered about Mrs. Bright for years now. Years! So, wasn’t it a little cruel to the devoted curious that we finally meet her when she’s dying of cancer?

RUSS: Mmm. Rules of drama, old man. Come in as late as possible, get out as soon as you can.  It’s always been a case of how much screentime we have available.

INT. DINING ROOM/BRIGHT’S HOUSE – NIGHT 1

MRS. BRIGHT, (54), a great Society beauty, and the Deb of the Year in 1934, sits at the table – distracted. BRIGHT enters – bearing something lovely for her supper – which he sets before her.

BRIGHT: You are good to me, “Puli”.

DAMIAN: Why does she call him Puli?

RUSS: From their time in India. It means Tiger. For obvious reasons.

DAMIAN: Indeed. The scene in the film ends with ‘Oh ‘Puli’. I don’t think I’ve been a very good wife.’ and with a beautifully reassuring smile, Bright replies ‘No man ever had a better.’ In the script he has an extra line, ‘Is there… something you want to tell me?’ Either way however, and I thought he actually knew she was seriously ill before this, did you consider it more dramatic for the audience to learn about it from his conversation with Max rather than his wife?

RUSS: No – this was the moment she told him. I’d imagine the cut was more to do with timing. I think the question from Bright was possibly a case of crossed wires. Given their history, when she says ‘I don’t think I’ve been a very good wife,’ his immediate lurch would be the thought that she has committed some indiscretion, not that she’s about to tell him her number is up.

INT. MAX’S CLUB – DAY

MAX waiting. BRIGHT makes his way through the crowd. MAX stands to greet him.

MAX: Chief Superintendent.

BRIGHT: Doctor. It’s very good of you to meet me.

MAX: Not at all. What may I get for you?

BRIGHT: Oh – er… A brandy, I think.

MAX attracts the attention of a passing waiter.

MAX: Albert. A brandy, if you would.

WAITER heads off.

MAX: (CONT’D) They do quite a decent spot of supper.

BRIGHT: Excellent. Excellent. I’m sure.

MAX: Now – how may I be of service?

BRIGHT: I may rely on your discretion. As a medical man.

MAX: Always. Please. Speak freely.

BRIGHT: My wife has been diagnosed with cancer of the lungs. Inoperable, according to the specialist. She’s scolded me for an optimistic fool, but I wonder if you might recommend anyone from whom one could seek… a second opinion.

MAX: Well, there’s no better man in England than Sir Julian Fitzalan. I know him slightly and would be happy… (off BRIGHT’S reaction) Chief Superintendent?

BRIGHT: Julian is my wife’s specialist…

DAMIAN: I thought this scene was perfectly written, shot and performed – certainly one of my favourites from series 6. The scene heading in the script simply states ‘Max’s Club’ and I was wondering where and what this might be?

RUSS: Well — thank you. There’s a few Gentlemen’s Clubs in Oxford – but I think we were sort of leaning towards Frewen’s as a model – which is St.Aldate’s. Yeh — it was lovely to be able to have Anton and Jimmy share a two hander. And, of course, they both played it to perfection. There was a fair bit of weeping from certain hard-bitten crew members when the scene was shot, so that was a good sign.

DAMIAN: I’m presuming from the dialogue that this is the first time that the two have met outside of work -excluding funerals and suchlike- and we know from the scene in the garden at Max’s home that he and Endeavour don’t socialise either. Has Max not got anyone?

RUSS: Max’s private life is for the moment a closed book. It would be lovely to put some flesh on the bones. We saw a little more of Max in this run — his home, his club.

DAMIAN: Endeavour lost his father, Cyril, in HOME (S1:E4) but they had a troubled relationship and unlike two little boys I know extremely well, he wasn’t fortunate in having a special bond with his grandfather. However, he did have Thursday and that family unit of Fred, Win, Joan and Sam represented the happy home that Endeavour never had. Throughout series 6 Endeavour is ‘sickened’ by an ‘unrecognisable’ Thursday, never more so when he sees him drinking and smoking (a cigarette!) at the Indian restaurant with the Droogs. Endeavour suppresses the evidence in the suitcase that would have implicated Thursday in the conviction and hanging of the wrong man in the Clemence case at the beginning of series 6 – would he have done the same by the end of film 3 or the beginning of 4?

RUSS: Yes – I don’t think their friendship is thrown away as quickly or easily as that. Thursday in his way is punishing himself for Fancy. He hates himself because he blames himself for Fancy’s death – every bit as much as Endeavour blames himself — and I think the temptation with Box has to be viewed through that lens. It’s an act of self-harm. Almost as if he wants to be caught and punished for something. Anything that will bring an end to his torment.

The cigarette… He’s also feeling like yesterday’s man, and – I think you asked me in an earlier Q&A about why he puts away his pipe after glancing through to Box and Jago. Well — they’re the coming men – younger, The Sweeney in waiting… and they’re all on the tabs. Thursday suddenly feels his pipe is perhaps old fashioned. If he’s going to run with this mob, he’d better start fitting in. But I don’t think Endeavour gives up on him – or ever would entirely. There’s too much between them.

Endeavour is hurt and confused by Thursday’s uncharacteristic behaviour. Rog was adamant that he didn’t want Thursday’s crossing of the line to be a ruse or a wheeze – a wink to the audience – in order to get the bad guys – which is probably the line I would have erred towards. But it was just as important to me that he came to his senses of his own will.

ENDEAVOUR: I’m sorry about the Disciplinary. You deserved better.

THURSDAY: I don’t know about that. Anyone should answer for what happened to George Fancy, it’s me. I was in charge.

ENDEAVOUR doesn’t know where to go with this THURSDAY.

ENDEAVOUR: Well – good luck with it, anyway. (a final throw of the dice) If you – fancy a drink some time..?

THURSDAY: Yeh. Yes, we, uh – we must do that.

Offered with all the conviction of one who has no intention of doing any such thing. Worse – they both know it.

PYLON (S6:E1)

DAMIAN: Why couldn’t Thursday reach out to Endeavour?

RUSS: It was important to illustrate that the relationship had changed. That they were no longer the happy few, the band of brothers from Cowley. And that was true with all the relationships. Bright – sidelined. Strange – making his way up the greasy pole. Endeavour and Thursday estranged. It was important that the audience shared in their pain.

ENDEAVOUR: My report. Syringe is in the bag.

THURSDAY: I’ll see the Guv’nor gets it.

ENDEAVOUR: Anything?

THURSDAY: Early days. You know how it is.

Seeing ENDEAVOUR in CID is more ‘yesterday’ than THURSDAY can bear.

PYLON

DAMIAN: ‘Yesterday’, hardly a coincidence given your frequent Beatles references and the aptness of some of the lyrics…

Yesterday,

All my troubles seemed so far away,

Now it looks as though they’re here to stay

Oh I believe in yesterday

Suddenly,

I’m not half the man I used to be

There’s a shadow hanging over me

Oh yesterday came suddenly

…but why did you want ‘Mad About the Boy’ playing at Thursday’s home?

RUSS: It just helped edge Thursday into the idea that perhaps he was losing Win too. If she was going off to ballroom with another man, and playing Mad About the Boy on the radiogram…  It all played into his lost equilibrium.

DAMIAN: You described Endeavour as the little wooden boy (in reference to Max acting as his conscience in the garden scene from APOLLO) in one of our previous interviews and after Isla is arrested in CONFECTION, you write that Endeavour ‘casts a look back at the house. Shepherd and Henry [Isla’s five-year-old son] in the window. Another unhappy little boy.’ Do you sometimes think of Endeavour as a little boy?

RUSS: Not particularly — but it’s a large part of what made him, isn’t it? There was a much bigger spat between Isla and Endeavour at the car — a literal spat, insofar as I think Endeavour got a faceful of saliva – along with some very damning words from her.

But Henry — felt very much like an echo of his own history.

DAMIAN: You’re very perceptive but circumspect regarding melancholy childhoods aren’t you?

RUSS: ‘I am not I; thou art not he or she; they are not they’ There’s a fair bit of mud to dredge. Long closed rooms and deserted galleries on the upper floors. But no more than anyone else, I’m sure. It would be a mistake to draw any particular conclusions from it.

DAMIAN: All of the previous film titles of series 6 were self explanatory but why DEGÜELLO?

RUSS: You know my fondness for Westerns. At one point – the night before the gunfight – which I’d intended to be a much larger set piece – at the Four Winds quarry – I had Thursday singing along with Dean Martin on the turntable – ‘My Rifle, My Pony and Me.’ from Rio Bravo.

It was a much bigger build up for all of them. Long dark night of the soul stuff. But ‘Degüello’ as you know was a bugle call ordered by Santa Ana at the Siege of the Alamo. I believe the more or less literal translation is ‘cut throat’, but it’s a signal that ‘No quarter’ is to be given. That the fight will be to the death, and that no prisoners will be taken.

EXT. CRANMER HOUSE ENTRANCE – DAY 2

SANDRA emerges into a world of swirling grey dust.

She gasps what seems to be her last breath – and collapses out of frame…

…into ENDEAVOUR’S arms.

ENDEAVOUR looks up the tower. Shocked. Traumatised.

DEGUELLO (S6:E4)

DAMIAN: Although Newham is mentioned, I couldn’t help but think of the Grenfell Tower tragedy during the Cranmer House disaster, especially with the casting of the mum and her young daughter. Indeed, your script specifically states they are ‘Afro-Caribbean’, was this on your mind too?

RUSS: I was working very late the night Grenfell happened and had the TV on for company. I remember seeing the first phone camera footage coming in, and it was clear straight away that it was an utter catastrophe which would result in terrible loss of life. We’ve all seen fires – but I don’t think any of us had ever seen anything to compare with that. Not here. The only thing that springs to mind is the R101 Disaster. Something that was instantly beyond human agency to contain. Watching it, one couldn’t comprehend that there could be such a conflagration without some sort of accelerant. And, of course, we know now that it was the cladding – without which it would never have gone up the way it did, or spread so rapidly or so fiercely. That this was happening in the heart of the capital…

So… But that wasn’t the inspiration, although, obviously, it certainly coloured one’s approach.  We’d considered developing a story that drew on Ronan Point the previous year, but then Grenfell happened and it wouldn’t have been at all appropriate. But I think the level of civil indifference and arse-covering by all responsible parties – which is still being covered – concerned with Grenfell fed into our story. Essentially, people died because money was deemed to be more important than their lives. They died because they were less well off than their neighbours. Because they were held to be of small account. One has to be careful what one says and writes about it because the Inquiry is ongoing and criminal charges may follow. But, to borrow a lawyerly phrase, if ‘one takes oneself out of this case’ and talks in more general terms… It does feel as if one has been hearing the phrase ‘lessons must be learned’ for the majority of one’s adult life. Meaningless hand-wringing and lip-service contrition. It’s interesting to compare the wholly unbelievable pack of lies some professional villain will offer from the dock with the elegant and expensive sophistry of corporations and government at national and local level. The latter groups would likely not consider themselves as in any way comparable to the former — but in the end if comes to down to this. They are both lying to avoid responsibility and consequence.

In part, when people like those in Grenfell die, they do so because successive governments – with the connivance of a sympathetic press – have sold the lie that we can have a functioning and safe society without having to pay for it. It’s forty years we’ve been chasing this illusion. The asset stripping of the UK plc. Of course — some people have done very nicely out of it. But they’ve always done very nicely, thank you very much. I think we had Thursday nod to it years ago. ‘It’s the same the whole world over, it’s the poor what gets the blame, it’s the rich what gets the pleasure, ain’t it all a blooming shame.’

DAMIAN: Indeed. Let us move on. Marvellously nefarious performance but I thought the character of Jago was terribly underwritten. I obviously understand why now but would it have been possible to develop him further so we knew a little bit more about him without giving the game away?

RUSS: Anything is possible, and we could have gone further in drawing him out, but I think we quite liked all the attention being on Box, with Jago appearing as not much more than his side-kick, only to invert that power dynamic at the last.

DAMIAN: Tell me about your original idea to include a flashback to the snooker hall with both Fancy and Jago and why it wasn’t filmed?

RUSS: I thought it might have helped the audience – but it wasn’t practical for a number of reasons.

DAMIAN: ‘Surprise, you couldn’t see me for Box’. Was Jago’s line improvised because it isn’t in the script?

RUSS: I would imagine that to be the case. I’d intended a much bigger shoot out – but the best laid plans, etc.

Once Upon a Time in Oxford

Four guns speak almost as one. BOX shoots JAGO. JAGO shoots BOX. ENDEAVOUR and THURSDAY shoot JAGO. BOX and JAGO go down – JAGO mortally wounded. ENDEAVOUR kicks JAGO’s gun away, and watches the light die in his eyes – while THURSDAY sees to BOX.

BOX: I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t leave you to it.

THURSDAY: I know.

BOX: Who’d’ve thought…

DAMIAN: In contrast to what was scripted, isn’t the scene as shot and edited rather more ambiguous?

RUSS: Is it? I’ll take your word for it.

DAMIAN: And, despite what both you and Simon Harrison told me in our interviews last year, he did redeem himself after all?

RUSS: We lied.

DAMIAN: Was this always part of his journey as planned from the beginning?

RUSS: There’s a certain amount of development as you watch some relationships and performances across the early films in a run.

DAMIAN: Why was series 6 the right moment to introduce the house we know from Inspector Morse?

RUSS: Well — the whole series he’s been looking for somewhere to call his own, after all the various flats and dossing in the office. But we also know he’s not exactly loaded — so somewhere that had been a squat with an unhappy history… there goes the neighbourhood. It felt organic that he might have come into his long term home by such means. He is forever surrounded by ghosts.

INT. LIVING ROOM/SQUAT – DAY 2

DULCE DOMUM sprayed on the wall… STRANGE’S attention lands on the graffito.

STRANGE: (mispronouching it, natch) Dulce domum.

ENDEAVOUR: Sweet home.

STRANGE casts an eye over the wretched state of the place.

STRANGE: No place like it.

DEGÜELLO

DAMIAN: What was the idea behind the Jag on the scrapheap which was then restored to its former glory by the end?

RUSS: It reflected where Endeavour and Thursday were at the start of the run — and, again, it felt right that the black Jag be restored to Endeavour by the end. Something put out for scrap – dismissed and disregarded by all for the next bang up to date thing — that felt very much like Endeavour. And like the house – it’s a hand me down. Something wonky in some way. But his affection for the Jaguar… looks set to be lifelong.

DAMIAN: ‘I hope this will become clear in the watching’ you told me when I asked about the moustache last year. Did it become as clear as you would have liked or would you have preferred the following not to have been cut:

ENDEAVOUR: You. I thought I knew who you were – but this past year, I barely recognise you.

THURSDAY: Nice tache. (which brings ENDEAVOUR up short) You’ve never been one to follow fashion. So, what’s that all about?

ENDEAVOUR: Seemed like a good idea at the time. I don’t know. Maybe it’s like Nicholson. Living with something you can’t put right.

THURSDAY: George, you mean?

ENDEAVOUR: I couldn’t stand to wake up every day and look at the man in the shaving mirror. The face that’d… let him down. I thought… if it was someone else staring back, I could forget it. If it didn’t happen to that face – I could fool myself it never happened at all.

THURSDAY: Perhaps we’ve all been hiding one way or another. From ourselves. From each other. From George. You’ve always given me too much credit. I’m not what you think.

ENDEAVOUR: Yes – you are.

THURSDAY: Nah. I’m just an old flatfoot with too many miles on the clock.

ENDEAVOUR: What’s going on? This isn’t work. This is something else.

THURSDAY: I took a wrong turn, and it cost me. But I can see a chance now to set things straight.

DEGÜELLO

RUSS: Mmm. Again – I think this was a request. The boys – Shaun and Rog – asked for something which explained it. So, I wrote this exchange for them. Which, when they read it, they thought was too self aware.  Sometimes – less is more.

DAMIAN: Endeavour tried to forget the death of Fancy and Thursday took a wrong turn. In contrast, both Bright and Strange refused to be bribed and the latter never gave up on trying to get justice for Fancy. To what extent were Bright and Strange the real heroes of series 6?

RUSS: I think it was about the quartet – getting the band back together, overall. But, yes. It was lovely to strike those notes with Bright and Strange. And they were both hugely important. I don’t think one should imagine that Endeavour or Thursday had given up. Endeavour wouldn’t let it rest, either. They were both… winded, I think is the best way to look at it. What happened to Fancy hurt them both deeply — and knocked them back. They each have their strengths and weaknesses – but that’s what friends are for, isn’t it? When you stumble, they make sure you don’t fall. The reaction to it all was quite extraordinary though. People were getting quite cross that one had made them suffer for so long. But that had to be. If we’d just shrugged off Fancy’s death by the end of the first reel – it would have been pretty unsatisfying. By the time we got to the end, hopefully the audience had been on a credible emotional journey with them all.

DAMIAN: I’ve asked some of the cast this same question but I wonder what your take will be: albeit only temporarily, do you think the moral downfall of Thursday suggests that all bets are now off and anything is possible for the future of the show and its characters in terms of what the audience thinks they are ethically capable of?

RUSS: Yes, perhaps.

DAMIAN: What can you say about the last film of series 7, ZENANA?

RUSS: Er… There’s an advisory referendum… Lady Matilda’s college is exploring the notion of going co-ed. That’s the jumping off point. The good end happily and the bad unhappily. Or something like that.

DAMIAN: Will series 8 be the last adventure?

RUSS:  Nothing is written.

DAMIAN: I don’t know if you can remember much about our very first interview back in 2014 but I said it surely can’t be a coincidence that so much of your work features the police and detectives and you replied that ‘it’s mostly coincidence.’ Well, I was delighted to hear that you’ve scripted a new TV series and I was wondering what it was about?

RUSS: A very old friend from school – Andrew O’Connor – who amongst his manifold achievements has been responsible for Peep Show, and in the theatre is intimately involved in the Derren Brown shows – got in touch. He asked me if I’d be interested in adapting the tremendously successful Roy Grace novels by Peter James for television. They’re a very different kettle of fish to my Oxford adventures — leaning more towards thriller / procedural territory.  And they’re very much Peter’s stories. But they have a distinctive identity – set in Brighton. Grace is an interesting modern copper. They’re contemporary – which is something I haven’t done for a while. John Simm is playing Grace. So… Watch this space. More anon, no doubt.

DAMIAN: Russ, thank you very much indeed… oh, there was just one more thing. I know you’re familiar with the Cake Paradox but let me ask you about the Sandwich Dilemma. You’re having lunch at the Thursday house and Win has made a variety of sandwiches to show off her Monday to Friday range. However, you and a friend arrive a little late and there are only two sandwiches left: the cheese and pickle or the sandwich she makes for Fred on a Wednesday. Now, you’d really like to have the cheese and pickle but that would only leave the Wednesday Special for your friend and he or she might reveal the much discussed filling to the world! Which do you choose?

RUSS: The Wednesday Special, of course. 

DAMIAN: See you down the road?

RUSS: Until then.

We leave Russ there with his Wednesday Special, the weight of the world on his shoulders and the fate of Oxford’s finest in his hands. And what lovely hands they are too. ROLL END CREDITS.

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2020

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THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2020: SEAN RIGBY

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An exclusive Endeavour interview with Sean Rigby

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2020

BRIGHT: When I arrived here three years ago, I had such high hopes. What an ignominious end I have led you to. I shall resign, of course.

THURSDAY: Sir…

BRIGHT: I failed him. I failed my men. The station gone. My brightest and best cast to the four winds. And all is brought to ruin.

Cometh the hour. The one true friend…

STRANGE: Bollocks to that.

THURSDAY: Sergeant…

STRANGE: No, sir. I won’t hear it. We might be down, but we’re not out. Not yet. Not by a long chalk. I’ll be damned if this is how it ends. We’ll have justice for him, sir. Whatever it takes.

THURSDAY: Jim’s right, sir. They can call us Thames Valley till the cows come home, but wherever we wash up, we’re City men – each one of us. To our boots. To the last.

BRIGHT: So few.

ENDEAVOUR: Enough to give him justice.

THURSDAY: We’ll find the bastard, sir.

BRIGHT: Your word on it.

THURSDAY: My oath.

STRANGE: And mine.

They look to ENDEAVOUR

ENDEAVOUR: For George

ICARUS (S5:E6)

DAMIAN: Pretty rousing stuff but I never quite understood what Russ meant by ‘Cometh the hour. The one true friend…’ when I first read the script and why Strange was the one true friend but, of course, I certainly do now. Endeavour was almost impotent with denial and Thursday spent most of the last series edging slowly towards the dark side. So, not only was Strange the one true friend, but to what extent might he also be described as the one true hero of series 6?

SEAN: He certainly stepped up to the plate. He’d be extremely red faced at being described as a hero though.

Double doors give on to a narrow vestibule/hall – a hard bench against a wall. Facing the open doors – a drop-leaf counter beyond which, the suggestion of a back room, from whence OPERATIC MUSIC floods the building.

ANGLE – SERVICE BELL on the counter. Beyond – out of focus – a UNIFORM sits with his back towards us, typing at a desk.

A hand comes down on the Service bell.

VISTOR (Off-screen): Shop!

UNIFORM rises – comes to the counter, and we recognise – ENDEAVOUR in full Thames Valley blues – three stripes on his sleeve. And sporting a moustache. His visitor – STRANGE – a touch of Brylcreem. Three-piece suit. Chelsea Boots.

STRANGE: This is where you’ve been keeping yourself, is it?

ENDEAVOUR’S not going to make this easy. A distance has fallen between them. Things unsaid, and for too long.

PYLON (S6:E1)

DAMIAN: Brylcreem, three-piece suit and Chelsea boots! – whatever happened to those rather fetching tank-tops?

SEAN: Being a style icon requires constant innovation and evolution. Strange and I have shown the world the many faces of the humble tank-top. It was time to move on!

STRANGE: We’re still no nearer to finding who did for George.

ENDEAVOUR: ‘We’? I’m here. You’re there. He’s [Thursday] at Castle Gate. Mister Bright at Traffic. There isn’t a we – not any more – nor likely to be.

STRANGE: We said…

ENDEAVOUR: You said. I don’t blame you. Heat of the moment. Like the last day of school. Solemn oaths and giddy declarations. ‘We happy few…’

STRANGE: I meant it.

ENDEAVOUR: I’m sure. But that’s not how it turned out. It’s never how these things turn out.

WIDE – two old friends, coffee table between them – the width of an ocean.

PYLON (S6:E1)

DAMIAN: I thought these and similar scenes in PYLON and throughout series 6 were beautifully written and, indeed, performed. He might not be as smart as Endeavour, but there’s no one more loyal and dependable when the chips are down than our Strange. Not only is he appalled by Endeavour’s attitude, but isn’t Strange also a little confused by it as well?

SEAN: The shock, and it was an extreme shock let us not forget, has affected them very differently. They are both grieving. Strange is using it as fuel whilst Morse uses it to build a wall around himself. It’s definitely confusing.

DAMIAN: Despite this, Strange continues to help Endeavour and even lies to ACC Bottoms towards the end of the film telling him that Endeavour belongs to one of the College Lodges in order to secure the transfer to Castle Gate. Why exactly does he do this; is it purely out of friendship or did he think Endeavour is more likely to pursue the truth about Fancy’s death if he’s stationed there?

SEAN: Six of one, half a dozen of the other. A less isolated Morse could prove to be more malleable.

DAMIAN: Also in PYLON, Endeavour pleads, ‘Look, you’re doing alright. Friends at the Lodge. Going places. You’re on the up. Just let it go.’ but Strange replies with ‘I can’t. I can’t’. Seemingly more than anyone else, why do you think Strange is so haunted by Fancy’s death?

SEAN: First and foremost, Strange cared for George. They were friends. For there to be no justice, no closure, is simply unbearable. His only way to emotionally deal with it is to make sure the culprit pays for what they did.

ENDEAVOUR: Who else knows about this?

STRANGE: So far – just us.

BRIGHT: Dr.deBryn was good enough to notify me and Detective Sergeant Strange first. I think – for the moment at least – such information should be contained amongst former City officers.

ENDEAVOUR: We’re a man shy, then. Aren’t we?

Awkward looks from BRIGHT and STRANGE.

DEGUELLO (S6:E4)

DAMIAN: Albeit only temporarily, do you think the moral downfall of Thursday suggests that all bets are off now and anything is possible for the future of the show – I mean, is there a real sense of not knowing what to expect when you read the scripts for the first time?

SEAN: I think that has always been the case. Narratively, stylistically and tonally the show has always been quite daring. Thursday’s journey is certainly an example of that. Russ has written real people. Real people do unexpected things. I’m always excited to open up a new script and see what trouble everyone has been getting into.

ENDEAVOUR: I met someone. She’s got a kid. A boy. Five years old. It could be – I don’t know – something. (off STRANGE) Why not? Everybody else gets a shot – why should I be any different?

STRANGE: Because you are.

ENDEAVOUR: What if I don’t want to be? Isn’t that what it’s supposed to be about? Something to come home to.

STRANGE: I wouldn’t know. Some day. Maybe.

CONFECTION (S6:E3)

DAMIAN: I thought the characters of Bright and Strange really evolved in series 6 but I wonder if, considering we’re now well into the third and final act of Endeavour, if there’s anything you’d like to explore with Strange before the curtain falls – perhaps get a girlfriend considering he hasn’t been on a proper date since 1966?

SEAN: I’d like to see more of Strange the leader. The authority figure. Too busy for dates!

DAMIAN: I thought the series got a lot darker as it grew towards the end of the decade. Indeed, the fun and playfulness of scenes such as Strange playing the trombone and becoming one half of the odd couple when he shared a flat with Endeavour seem to be sadly long gone. Do you miss these aspects of Strange’s character from the good old days?

SEAN: I feel they are still a part of his character, just below the surface. I imagine the trombone is kept under his desk. For emergencies.

STRANGE: Back to the day-job, then. That was quite nice while it lasted. Bit like the good old days.

ENDEAVOUR: Which were they? Remind me.

PYLON (S6:E1)

DAMIAN: You told me in our first interview, ‘I’d like to think that Strange in the 1960s is very much trying to find himself. He is very sure of where he wants to go in the world but is still unsure of his footing within it.’ How do you see Strange in the 1970s?

SEAN: Harder. Tougher. Self assured. He’s his own man now.

DAMIAN: Sean, thank you very much indeed.

SEAN: A pleasure, as always!

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2020

Stay up to date with all my latest Endeavour cast and crew interviews via twitter @MrDMBarcroft

THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2020: STEPHEN LA RIVIERE

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An exclusive Endeavour interview with writer, producer, director, puppet operator and editor Stephen La Rivière

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2020

INT. MOONBASE

Consoles with winking lights. The HERO of MOON RANGERS – square jawed MAJOR.ROCK RENTON with X1 the ANDROID and COLONEL CRATER, crusty old patriarch.

MAJOR RENTON: If only we could access Damian Michael Barcroft’s website from outer space. I wanted to read his interview with Stephen La Rivière about the making of the ‘Moon Rangers’ sequences for ‘Endeavour’.

Some electronic beeps — X1’s ‘VOICE’.

COLONEL CRATER: What did that box of wires and lights say?

MAJOR RENTON: X1 says if we can beam our signal off the asteroid, we might be able to find Barcroft’s Uniform Resource Locator.

COLONEL CRATER: His URL? Great Scott! It’s a billion to one-shot, but it might just work!

(Not quite as originally written – apologies to Russell Lewis)

CUT TO:

DAMIAN: Okay Steve – right, let’s go! Stephen, you’re a producer, director, writer, actor and, of course, a puppeteer best known for your work relating to Gerry and Sylvia Anderson’s Supermarionation style of filmmaking. However, you were born in the eighties so must have missed most of their really iconic shows?

STEPHEN: If we’re talking original transmission, then I missed all of them. However, there was a HUGE revival in the early 90s – and, indeed, again in the early 2000s. It always surprises me that so many people have forgotten about the revivals – which were in many ways more successful than the original transmissions. The Tracy Island toy was the most sought after Christmas present for children both times. And it was quite a feat – perhaps one only really matched by the likes of Disney. Children were tuning into a show made three decades previously and accepting it as something of their time.

Having said that, I discovered the shows slightly ahead of their revival courtesy of my mother who bought a video of Thunderbirds from the bargain bin at Woolworths because she’d liked it when she was a child. And it seems to have been instant love.

DAMIAN: What shows do you remember watching as a kid that had their first broadcast in the eighties and how did they compare to favourites like Thunderbirds?

STEPHEN: On the basis of pure vanity, I’d like to point out that I’m sufficiently young enough to only have a couple of sketchy memories of the 80s as a whole! My memories of 80s shows were largely on repeat – and again they were shows like Thomas the Tank Engine that had artistic appeal that allowed them to live beyond their original audience. Thomas, incidentally, was produced by an ex-Thunderbirds model maker. Of my contemporary shows in the first half of the 90s… I watched stuff like Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles. Stuff that was entertaining enough at the time but no real longevity. I have nostalgia when I catch a glimpse of stuff like The Raggy Dolls etc. But that’s it really. Nostalgia. I wouldn’t watch these shows for enjoyment now – whereas the Gerry and Sylvia shows of the 60s are endlessly watchable.

The early 90s was a golden time to discover great shows of the past. Friday evenings on BBC 2 – Thunderbirds, Stingray, Doctor Who, The Champions, The Man From Uncle. Plus Channel 4 showed The Avengers. In 1996 ITV did a repeat run of Upstairs Downstairs. Lots of kids discovered Doctor Who during this time too – and loved it even though it was in black and white. Great television and films will never die, so long as new audiences are given a chance to see them. That’s the sad thing about Netflix algorithms – it reduces your chance of exposure to stuff you wouldn’t normally look for. Also the idea that ‘modern kids won’t like that’ is a nonsense. Children have no preconceptions at first – they’ll either enjoy something or they won’t. In many ways, they’re less set in their ways than adults. Early exposure is the key though.

DAMIAN: Can you describe your childhood, for example, were there other kids you could share your passion for sci-fi and fantasy with or were you something of an outsider?

STEPHEN: I was an outsider. In more ways than just my interests. Even at the peak of the revival I didn’t know anyone who liked the same things I did. I managed to get one friend briefly into Doctor Who – but I suspect he was as interested in Doctor Who as I was in football during the brief moment I ‘got into’ it. I.E. to have a shared interest. Also, I wasn’t really a sci-fi fan. Probably more of an old television fan. By the age of ten I was as content watching stuff like Upstairs Downstairs or I Claudius – which I believe a certain mutual friend was in – as I was anything sci-fi. My principal loves though were the Supermarionation shows and Doctor Who. My interest in Who has waned over the years, but my Supermarionation love… well. Need I say more? Anyway, the short answer is: no. I didn’t have anyone to share my interests with!

Through Century 21 Films, Stephen co-produced two new documentaries about the stories ‘Four to Doomsday’ and ‘Earthshock’ for the blu-ray release of Peter Davison’s first season of Doctor Who

DAMIAN: Were there certain characters from any of the Anderson productions that you identified with or perhaps aspired to be like?

STEPHEN: Not really. I’ve never really looked for characters who were like me – and my family background and life has been so odd I’d be surprised if I ever saw a character I could directly identify with. Nor have I ever needed it. Television was a great way to find cool people unlike you! Did I aspire to be like a character – yes. I always wanted to be as cool as Scott Tracy. That voice! Thunderbird 1! Unfortunately, some things are out of range. I suppose if I started smoking 50 a day now I might manage to get a voice like Jeff’s.

There’s a message that underpins many of the Supermarionation shows about helping others – and I think that did leave a lasting impression. I was in Japan during the big earthquake in 2011 and I think part of my desire to stay and volunteer was partly driven by that childhood message relayed in almost everything the Andersons made.

DAMIAN: I’d like to talk a little bit about finding an audience or readership and how the internet has opened up so many opportunities. What can you tell me about your first experiences and how these led to the documentaries and books?

STEPHEN: Well, I’m guilty to an extent of piggy-backing on someone else’s audience. The background to my production life really begins with the fact that I had an awful time at school – which culminated in three kids trying to knife me. So I left when I was 15 without any qualifications. And that immediately reduces your options. The great thing though about being an outsider as a child is that it gives you lots of time to watch TV! And so whilst I lack any formal film education, by sheer osmosis I think I learnt a lot about how to make films. DVDs – and consequently DVD extras – were becoming a thing at that time. I found out that Terrahawks was being released on DVD and suggested to the releasing company that they do some interviews. Somehow that led to me making something for them – my first credit. And that led to making more behind the scenes programmes. So my audience was stolen really.

I got a bit disillusioned with production in 2008 so gave it up permanently. I wrote my book Filmed in Supermarionation the same year – and then in 2010 moved to Japan. So the last five years back in the world of film, television and advertising has been a bit of a surprise. I was tempted back on a one-off basis because I was offered the chance to turn Filmed in Supermarionation into a documentary. Which in turn has led into something of a Supermarionation revival when we produced three new episodes of Thunderbirds for the 50th anniversary of the show. And my goal with that was not just to celebrate the past but to bring a new audience to what I believe is an art-form that is both beautiful and bonkers!

DAMIAN: In addition to the old cliché about being in the right place at the right time, to what extent would you agree that there’s usually some sort of kind mentor along the journey that helps with making contacts or offers sage advice?

STEPHEN: The self-made man is a myth. We all get through life with the help – and sometimes hindrance – of others. When I did the Terrahawks DVD extras I was out of my depth really. Kevin Davies – who designed the Terrahawks titles – was by then a documentary maker. He immediately clocked that I could do with some help. But he never humiliated me – just gave me little tips about things I could do. So I owe him a lot. And along the way there have been lots of people who have helped me. Including some who I met because I wanted to interview them. Thunderbirds director David Elliott, playwright Rosemary Anne Sisson, actress Jean Marsh, composer Alexander Faris – people I went to meet once, who then helped me in immeasurable ways. Like everyone else I’d like to believe that I’m completely in control, but I think the most you can hope for in life is to be the captain of a boat in stormy seas. You push in certain directions, but the tempestuous waves of a million different factors – people, circumstances, chemicals in your brain – earthquakes! – take you to places you wouldn’t normally end up.

DAMIAN: Well, Russell Lewis, being a huge fan of the Anderson productions himself, greatly admired your work and told me that he pointed the Endeavour team to you. How did you first hear the news that they wanted you to film the Moon Rangers sequences and what was your reaction?

STEPHEN: I got an e-mail one day from the producer, Deanne Cunningham. ‘I’m the producer of an ITV drama. I am trying to contact Stephen La Rivière about an episode we are currently planning involving supermarionation style puppetry. It would be great to speak to you about this if you have the time.’

I can’t imagine not having the time for something like this!

It was very exciting. The life of a freelancer is so often waiting for the e-mail or letter that will start a new adventure. A couple of days passed before I found out what it was about – during which time I’d resigned myself to the fact that maybe someone else had got the job. Not that we have any competitors as such as it’s such a specialised field, but the thought is always there.

When I found out and read the script I was very excited, but also worried. Linking up with another crew can produce problems. We worked on an advert for the Halifax in 2016 and I made the error of allowing them to choose the crew who would work under our advice. The crew were perfectly accomplished – but they’d never made anything like this before. The original Supermarionation crew were very clever. And it’s very difficult to film these puppets and models if you don’t know all the tricks that were used by the original Century 21 Films team. The Halifax crew – not used to practical miniature work – couldn’t understand why they weren’t getting the right results with their usual techniques and consequently it was a very stressful experience. So I was worried about a repeat of that experience.

And so as to rob this story of any tension and drama – Endeavour was the best experience possible. Just wonderful people to work with.

DAMIAN: So, you’ve got the job. Can you take me through the process of how you prepared the Moon Rangers sequences including the design of the characters, their costumes, sets and vehicles?

STEPHEN: We all met in London for an initial meeting and discussed ideas and approaches. I think to begin with both sides preferred to have greater control – which is completely natural. Production is difficult, stressful and costly and you want to get people you can rely on. So naturally they favoured as many of their own crew and I favoured as many of mine. What we ended up with though was a collaboration that – I think – worked out perfectly. My initial preference was that we should build the main set as the scale is really important, but understandably Paul Cripps [production designer] wanted to do that. And taking on board our advice I think he came up with something fantastic. It looks great on camera, whilst having the right sort of aesthetic.

On the flip side, Paul originally planned to do the puppets, but it made more sense for us to build them as our puppet makers are the experts in this particular style of marionette and we wanted to ensure everything worked as we needed. Though, having said that, we still managed to have a mechanical malfunction on the day that nearly drove me to a nervous breakdown. Which is something else I’d like to praise the Endeavour team for. I warned them that these puppets are very temperamental and reshoot time would be essential if needed. All of that was taken into consideration – which makes the whole experience so much easier.

So Paul designed the main puppet set – which matched aesthetically what I really wanted to go for. Even though the episode was set in 1969, I felt that Russell has perfectly caught in the dialogue the essence of Fireball XL5 and Stingray – which had that sort of weird late 50s / early 60s hybrid look.

Rock Renton and below: Steve Zodiac (Fireball XL5), Troy Tempest (Stingray) and Scott Tracy (Thunderbirds)

Paul also gave us sketches as to how he envisaged the characters. Rock Renton was made specially for the show by top sculptor Stephen Mansfield who sculpts all our new characters. Stephen took Paul’s design as a starting point and then translated that into the pre-set proportions of a Supermarionation puppet whilst adding a few influences from the original characters. I was really happy with the look of Rock Renton – he seemed to embody Steve Zodiac, Troy Tempest and Scott Tracy somehow. Once the sculpt was done and approved puppet maker Barry Davies built the puppet and installed all the mechanisms.

X1

The X1 Robot was again built following Paul’s initial design – but with slight changes that occurred as a result of using ordinary household objects. The head, for instance, is a paint pot! He was built by our effects team of Toby Chamberlain and Hilton Fitzsimmons and operated by Elliot Pavelin.

Luna
Colonel Crater

Luna and Colonel Crater followed Paul’s ideas more by chance than design in that we already had puppets that looked right. Paul wanted Colonel Crater to look like Morse creator Colin Dexter. We agreed that an existing puppet – who we’d had built for the new Thunderbirds episodes we’d made in 2015 – again sculpted by Stephen Mansfield – looked the part. Because of the pre-determined proportions of the earlier Supermarionation puppets, you can never really do an exact copy – so you aim to capture the essence. And the puppet previously known as Dawkins seemed just right for the job.

Luna was a previously unused puppet – sculpted for (and deleted from) the Halifax advert by Marina and Lady Penelope creator Mary Turner. Given Luna is an homage to Marina it seemed almost serendipitous that we could provide a puppet sculpted by the same person.

Paul also included some costume sketches. The costumes were made by our costume lady, Liz Comstock-Smith. She followed Paul’s design for the main uniform, whilst the final look of Luna was influenced by some rather fabulous flowing fabric Liz found. Supermarionation is a very organic process – whatever you set out to do morphs across the different elements of production. Not just because of the creative whims of the team – but because the puppets are so specific in what they require. In the case of the costumes, the fabric and construction has to be perfect to allow the puppet to move freely.

On the special effects front, the rocket was kit-bashed by Hilton Fitzsimmons who built two models – just in case we needed to blow up two. Paul arranged the staging and drapes needed for the SFX shots – and had some rather nice moon craters built. The stage was dressed with sand for the drama shots – but we substituted that for other materials when it came to the effects shot itself for a better effect.

We were on set for a week in total. The drama sequences were shot on the Wednesday and Thursday – and then we took over the stage to shoot Moon Rangers. Both puppet and model sequences were shot on a vintage Mitchell on 35mm film by Boyd Skinner our expert DOP who knows all of the lighting and lensing requirements. Malcolm Smith came into do the pyrotechnics (which were very loud). Again, Malcolm is an expert in producing the right sort of explosions that work in miniature. He also has to plan out the timing of each shot precisely because we shoot at high speed. So a 5 second detonation is in fact only 1 second in real life.

The model shots were done in sections. The landing and initial detonation, the collapse, and then various shots of detonation – which had to culminated in the foam of the extinguisher in order to take us back into the main drama. I was very conscious that we were an elaborate, but small part of a big drama and tried to make sure as much as possible that our bits would integrate into the main action.

I can’t stress enough how much of a genuine collaborative effort this was. We were all in constant touch checking with each other that we were getting what we wanted. From my side, I wanted to be providing the show with what its production team wanted. From their side, they were respectful of making sure that I got the things I needed to make sure we ended up with an authentic looking, affectionate homage – not a badly made parody that cheapened the original shows.

I hope that what we ended up with is a true marriage between Russell’s written vision, Shaun’s directorial vision, Paul’s design vision and my vision of how to do new Supermarionation work that doesn’t harm the original shows, but brings a new audience. And given the reaction online – I think we succeeded. In the year since Apollo went out, we’ve been inundated with requests not just to bring Thunderbirds back, but to do full series of Moon Rangers!

Stephen with David Elliott and Mary Turner above them

DAMIAN: How did puppeteer Mary Turner and director David Elliott who both worked on the original Thunderbirds become involved?

STEPHEN: I’ve known Mary and David for the best part of 20 years – I first met them as a young fan wanting to know how the shows were made. Going to Mary for puppeteering seemed natural – not just because she was there, but because she understands television puppeteering. It needs to be subtle as the camera amplifies everything. She was joined by Géraldine Donaldson as the supervisor (she ensures that all the puppets are prepared, dressed, styled and working) and Elliot Pavelin – who worked as a lip-sync operator and puppeteer. Although to be honest we all do a bit of everything really. My co-producer Andrew T. Smith not only looks after the running of the whole operation, but puppeteers, lip-sync operates, sorts out camera problems. We all have to be all rounders!

As for David when we began production on the three anniversary specials of Thunderbirds, he asked if he could direct one. It hadn’t occurred me to ask because it’s a huge strain and he was 84. I hesitantly agreed and… he sat down in the chair and five decades fell away. It was like he’d never been away. He did some amazing work for us.

For Endeavour, I wanted to puppeteer too, and so it made sense to have David on set too. Originally it was to have a second pair of eyes focussed just on the action to make sure we were getting everything – but he’s so full of good ideas it can’t help but be a collaboration. So even though I got sole credit, it was actually both of us – some shots are his, some are mine. One of the shots was actually the idea of my co-producer, Andrew T. Smith. It really is a very collaborative process. If someone’s got a good idea we use it!

It wasn’t just David and Mary – David Graham, the voice of Parker, provided (uncredited) the voice of Colonel Crater. Mary and David Elliott are in their 80s, and David Graham is in his 90s – so I think I might have the oldest working film crew out there!

The dialogue was recorded at Hackenbacker in London. Nigel Heath gave us a fantastic 60s microphone set-up so we could get the authentic sound. Justin T. Lee provided – again uncredited – the Scott Tracy-esque voice of Rock Renton.

DAMIAN: What was Shaun Evans like to work with as an actor and a director?

STEPHEN: As I said earlier on, one of my great concerns about this was having a repeat of the Halifax experience – trying to work through another director. But Shaun said that I should direct the Moon Rangers bit as it was a specialised form of filmmaking. So my level of respect for him is huge. Not every filmmaker has the lack of ego to be able to say, ‘Actually, it would be better if we let this person do this bit’.

That’s not to say Shaun had no involvement – everything done was to service his show. But ultimately, this was one long special effects sequence involving specialised knowledge and it was fantastic that we were allowed to get on and do the things we needed to do.

A specialised sequence like this – in the middle of a big production with its down demands – could have been a nightmare to get right. But it was just a pleasure. Nearly two years on, I’m still surprised to be able to say that as it’s so unusual!

DAMIAN: Who gave the best performance – the puppets or the human actors?

STEPHEN: Given that Rock Renton broke down – mechanically, rather than mentally – for three hours on the shoot day, I’d say the actors. Definitely more reliable. Though, like many temperamental stars, I don’t think any of Rock’s problems showed up on screen.

I would like to highlight one puppet performance though that I loved – Colonel Crater collapsing. Mary Turner operated Crater and her comic timing reduced everyone to fits of laughter. Which on a stressful, complicated day is something we all needed!

DAMIAN: Russ visited the studios at Twickenham for two days and said that they were amongst the happiest he’s ever spent on the show. However, from your perspective, I wonder if having the writer there watching you perform was a little nerve-racking?

STEPHEN: I think many creatives suffer from Impostor Syndrome. The idea that you shouldn’t be there. So on that basis, I like keeping everyone away so I have time to fix the problems before anyone notices. And boy – do the puppets come with lots of problems. Paul Cripps suddenly wandered onto the set unexpectedly when we were having problems with Renton – and I wanted to die from shame. I mean, I know the puppets come with these problems – they either work beautifully, or they’re bastards. Even Gerry used to call them ‘little bastards’. But it worries me that to people who don’t do this on a daily basis that they think it’s incompetence, rather than the nature of this type of fiddly filmmaking.

I was delighted Russell could come down. Not least so I could express my admiration for the script which I think is genuinely very clever. In one minute it totally distills the essence of those shows. And it’s enormously quotable. Amongst my crew it’s easily the production we reference the most.

DAMIAN: You know, I think Russ actually found the experience very moving and not just because he’s a fan of Stingray, Thunderbirds and the other Anderson shows, but he told me that watching you work reminded him of when he was a kid making 8mm stop-motion films with Action Men. Essentially, as an artist, would you agree that you’re not only operating the puppets, but also gently holding people’s childhoods in your hands?

STEPHEN: Yes! Absolutely. And I’m very conscious of that in everything we do. We’re playing in a toy-box that deserves respect. My only intention with everything we do is that we tell the audience – new and old – that these shows were fantastic. Of everything we’ve done, I think Moon Rangers has done the most to promote that idea. We have big plans for Supermarionation – and Moon Rangers has really helped us on that path.

DAMIAN: Was it your idea for Russ to have the little cameo?

STEPHEN: Actually, I think it was Géraldine’s idea – our puppetry supervisor. The hand insert wasn’t in the script – but the script made quite a bit about the human sized props. So I thought it’d be fun to do a human hand sequence not least because everyone remembers them. But also, it would serve the main drama plot. As we were preparing for the shot Géraldine said, ‘Wouldn’t it be a nice idea to give Russ a cameo?’ So she went away and made a sleeve for him out of a bit of the remaining puppet costume material and he came onto the set to play Rock Renton. It’s a lovely touch. We were also able to film a bit of Russell on set with the puppets as we were at the end of the reel – hopefully a nice memento for him of the day.

Thinking about that day I feel so warm towards the experience. That’s the magic of these puppets – despite the frustrations of production – there is just a magic of stepping onto those sets and seeing the characters live.

DAMIAN: What’s next for you and Century 21?

STEPHEN: Stand by for action… We’ll be back. We just can’t say anything about it yet!

DAMIAN: Stephen, thank you very much indeed.

STEPHEN: No, thank you. I’m not blind to the fact we were 1 minute of a much-loved series. But as I’ve said to everyone else until their eyes glaze over, I loved the whole thing. Normally old work makes you wince – but I’m hugely proud of my tiny part in Endeavour.

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2020

Stay up to date with all my latest Endeavour cast and crew interviews via twitter @MrDMBarcroft

THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2020: RUSSELL LEWIS PART II

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An exclusive Endeavour interview with writer/deviser/executive producer Russell Lewis

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2020

Special thanks to Stephen La Rivière

INT. VENDING MACHINE AREA/NEW COWLEY POLICE STATION

BRIGHT at his solitary repast – nosing through a newspaper with an APOLLO HEADLINE. THURSDAY arrives.

THURSDAY: Giving the canteen a miss today, sir?

BRIGHT: I was just… uh… (re the Apollo headline) Extraordinary thing.

THURSDAY: Yes, it is. Hell of a thing. Brave as you like. I was a boy when Alcock and Brown crossed the Atlantic. Everybody said that couldn’t be done. Fifty years on, and it’s the moon.

BRIGHT: ‘Man’s reach’, Thursday.

DAMIAN: Russ, what do you remember of July 1969?

RUSS: My chief recollection is peering at a black and white TV and trying to make sense of the images thereon. Was the touchdown beamed back live – or is my mind playing tricks? The pictures were quite difficult to process for my young mind. Quite abstract. Oblique views of the lunar surface.

But there was a great air of excitement about it all. My maternal grandmother was as old as the century, and it’s mad to think her life encompassed both the Wright Brothers first powered flight, and then – sixty-six years later – she was still alive to watch men walk on the moon. Quite staggering. Having seen Alan Tracy do his thing in Thunderbird 3, one might have been a bit blasé about it, assuming that – ‘well, of course, the moon is nothing special. Thunderbird 3 goes there all the time.’

E/I. THE MOON/SOUNDSTAGE/HEAVISIDE STUDIOS

The surface of the moon. Pockmarked with craters. Buzz Aldrin’s ‘Magnificent desolation.’ The blast of deceleration rockets – and a spaceship descends to the surface.

The space-ship crashes in a tremendous explosion… A moment – and a couple of STAGEHANDS enter frame with fire extinguishers to put out the flames… WIDE – and we see the MOON is a model set.

DAMIAN: The second film of series 6, APOLLO, was something of a love letter to Gerry Anderson and the Supermarionation style of filmmaking. Can you tell me what shows like Thunderbirds and Stingray meant to you as a child?

RUSS: I guess, along with the films of Ray Harryhausen, they furnished my imagination. I would have watched them in black and white, I suppose – first time round. Like most of the country, not having a colour TV. But, yes, I was completely in thrall to the worlds created in each of those shows.

DAMIAN: Also, some of the puppets such as Lady Penelope and Marina were strangely alluring to young boys weren’t they?

RUSS: Marina, perhaps. Lady Penelope… not so much. As a child I found her rhotacism a bit off-putting. I was fascinated by the imagery in the end credits of Stingray – across the “Marina” theme. Exquisitely shot. These felt like images that could have come from a big budget, high production value movie. I don’t know if I’ve mentioned it before, but the mood and imagery for Pulp’s Hardcore video has been a bit of a touchstone across the last couple of Series — which in turn took its inspiration from a coffee table book called Still Life edited by Diane Keaton (yup!) and Marvin Heiferman. I’ve got a pretty battered copy, but it’s filled with stills and publicity shots from Hollywood movies between 1940 and ‘69. There’s something very strange and staged about those shots – oddly lifeless and artificial — and often sinister, in a kind of David Lynch/Twin Peaks way. There’s something about the kind of world that they’re trying to depict which rings utterly hollow. They’re what the mind of someone who has lived an unsophisticated life imagines the sophisticated life to be. Do you know what I mean? It’s like what children imagine a King’s life to be. Ice cream for breakfast, lunch and supper, delivered on silver salvers by periwigged flunkies in buckled shoes – illustrated by Quentin Blake.

And… this does get back to Marina and Lady Penelope, I promise you… In the UK, there was that same brittle Soho glamour abroad after the war. Telephone accents. Ruth Ellis. It’s there in Betjeman’s Song of a Nightclub Proprietress — that piss elegance that pretends to something it isn’t. Del Boy Trotter’s ‘Bonnet de douche’. That’s probably a bit unfair on Del Boy – but Hyacinth Bucket is close to the mark. And I think that’s certainly true of Lady Penelope. It’s a suburban imagining of the aristocracy. Ha! You remember that scene with Jane Fonda in Klute where she goes and monologues the fantasy of the old gentleman in the Garment Factory. He’s come from the old country, and the fantasy is all about Fonda’s trip to the gambling tables of Monte Carlo, it’s all dripping with Euro decadence and the ‘pagan’ feelings stirred in her by some older man in the casino. And it’s a fantastic scene – but again, it’s that level of pretence. It’s no accident Lady Penelope ends up in Monte in The Man from MI.5. And that’s there in the Marina montage as well. Candles melting in a Chianti bottle. A vision of glamour that most of us could only dream about in the UK. But it was bogus. Ersatz. Rank Charm – as they say.

DAMIAN: You visited filming at Twickenham studios for a couple of days and I believe the first was with Shaun directing the human actors. You’ve obviously known Shaun for a long time now but what he is like as a director?

RUSS: Thorough. Prepared.

DAMIAN: Did the two of you have any significant creative differences on this film?

RUSS: Not that I recall, specifically. But what goes on tour…

DAMIAN: Shaun’s first foray into directing was a couple of years ago now, do you think he always had ambitions to direct an episode of Endeavour and why do you think he wanted to direct this particular film?

RUSS: Well – he didn’t want to open the batting – first time out, and the only film available to him to direct was the second in the run.

DAMIAN: Have you ever thought of having a go behind the camera?

RUSS: I’m already insufferable enough.

DAMIAN: Not you, sir. The second day of filming at Twickenham involved the puppet sequences. Now, I’ve often tried to get you to pick a favourite child and you always refuse. However, you must have something of a special soft spot for this film?

RUSS: I enjoyed the puppets very much. Getting up close and personal with Stephen La Rivière’s wonders. His team is fantastic, and I could happily spend the rest of my days doing nothing but working with them. What I adored was that it took me back to making my own 8mm stop-motion films as a kid. Then – Action Men were my cast, brilliantly poseable for animation – but it was in essence ‘bringing one’s toys to life.’ And there was an element of that with the puppets and the vehicles. Obviously, compared to the budget they’d had on the commercials they’d done, we could offer nothing like the same resources — but, clearly, when they’d been doing their Thunderbirds at 50 films, I don’t think they were awash with money, which brings me to my point — they have retained a very healthy sense of make do and mend, and most importantly, the only thing that matters is what’s in the frame. Does it tick all the rules boxes? No. Does it work? Does it look fantastic? Absolutely. That chimed very happily with my approach to making things. I adore sleight of hand. The movie and TV magic. What you thought you saw, you did not see.

He and they have such a genuine reverence for the original way of doing things, and a touching affection for those who broke that ground first time around… Having David Elliot and Mary Turner on the floor – and seeing Mary manipulating the puppets from the ‘Bridge’ over the set, as she had done for Anderson nearly sixty years ago… For those of us to whom such a moment might mean something… It was extraordinarily moving.

DAMIAN: Is this why you chose this film to make your first and only onscreen appearance?

RUSS: First do no harm. It was Stephen’s idea. And it kind of fed back into the make do and mend approach. At first, I think, we’d built the cut to the human hand into the story – and explained it in dialogue as part of the plot. There was a lot more about guns and blanks and live rounds early on, as a way of explaining why more than one person would have tested positive for firearms residue. But there we are. I was always very conscious as a kid of the cut to the live human hand pulling a lever or pushing a switch – and I think I wrote about that in the stage directions. Geraldine – Stephen’s colleague at Century 21 Films – had an offcut of material left over from Renton and Crater’s costumes – literally, a fragment of cloth, perhaps with a bit of braiding, was it? – and I was sewn into that to create a bit of cuff. Just enough to deceive. The ONLY thing that matters is what’s in frame. And away I went. A career in hand modelling beckons… And not a moment too soon.

DAMIAN: Can you describe the atmosphere on set with Stephen La Rivière and Century 21 working their magic?

RUSS: Well, as I think I’ve mentioned, it meant a lot. To be on the floor with Stephen and his team, and of course David and Mary. Really was amongst the happiest days I’ve spent on the show. That the shoot took place during the heatwave merely added to the fun of it. The studio – with the lights blazing – was stifling. We were the Alec Guinness Bridge on the River Kwai ‘Sweatbox’ Re-Enactment Society. As the late, great Neil Innes said when I saw him play at the Marquee some forty years ago, ‘The sweat’s running down the cheeks of my arse like juice from a rhubarb tart.’ But if I could spend the rest of my days doing that… it would be no contest.

DAMIAN: You mention Barry Gray’s music in the script and his contribution to the Anderson productions can’t be overstated. Any particular favourite themes or songs?

RUSS: Stingray is sensational. And I’m very fond of Joe 90.  The organ line is marvellous. I also like the vocal version of Captain Scarlet by The Spectrum – who supposedly performed it (or mimed to it) on The Golden Shot. I’d love to know if there was any truth in that. The vocalist to my ear always sounds like Ray Brooks – who narrated Mister Benn. Marina is a stone cold classic. The mighty Thunderbirds theme. But with a lot of these, it’s the incidental music that haunts the mind. Some of the stuff on The Uninvited – the strange Thunderbirds story set around a pyramid.  Madly, I always feel like I catch echoes of it in some of the arrangements in The Specials early work — Ghost Town in particular – those brass stabs, and the flute figure always sound very Thunderbirds to my ears. Barry Gray’s music did so much of the heavy lifting in terms of mood and scene setting. In much the same way that our own Barry – and now, of course, Matt Slater – bring so much to Endeavour. Their music has saved our blushed more times than I can remember.

DAMIAN: Was it the idea to incorporate the Apollo 11 moon landing or the Supermarionation aspects of the story that came first?

RUSS: Oh – the Moon Landing. It would have been a natural exit point for the series as a whole – as the pinnacle of human achievement.

INT. SOUNDSTAGE/HEAVISIDE STUDIOS

A puppet Moonbase. Consoles with winking lights. The HERO of MOON RANGERS – square jawed MAJOR.ROCK RENTON in a scene with X1 the ANDROID (a ROBOT), LUNARA – one of the Moon People; and COLONEL CRATER, crusty old patriarch.

COLONEL CRATER: Barbara’s not only my daughter, Major, but she’s also a renowned Astro-Physicist in her own right.

MAJOR RENTON: I warned her not to go, Colonel. Now, she’s out there somewhere on the dark side, with only thirty minutes of oxygen left.

COLONEL CRATER: Don’t blame yourself, Rock. She was determined to get that space-flu vaccine through to the miners at Station X19…

DAMIAN: Tell me about creating these characters, the choice of names and if you needed to do much research or does hokey dialogue just come naturally?

RUSS: They were kind of Stingray-ish, really, weren’t they? Alliterative for Troy Tempest/Rock Renton. The name Renton had stuck in my head for fifty years — I think there was a character called Rod Renton in either Secret of Zarb or The Terror of Tiba – these little books I had when I was a kid. Spitfire Books. I’m not sure if they were for younger readers or just pulpy – but they were all genres… cowboy, war, adventure… and the pair in question were sort of secret agenty. The kind of story where each of the buddy-buddy heroes had alliterative names.

DAMIAN: Note the book logo – Tigers were everywhere in the 60s.
RUSS: I think the chap in the fez and robes on the cover fed into stage directions for supporting artists at Bixby’s party in RIDE. We just added the horse-hair fly-swatter. A shilling!  Money well spent.

And Crater was a version of Commander Shore from Stingray. What we were reaching for with Moon Rangers though was a show that had already passed its sell-by date. Anderson had moved away – with Captain Scarlet – from the larger headed marionettes of the earlier productions to more properly proportioned puppets. And it was important for us that our studio – Heaviside – was still flying the old flag – that it was slipping behind the times. I know Stephen La Rivière has much greater affection for the Stingray/Thunderbirds era puppets. And I do see his point. While Scarlet and Joe 90 were much more realistically proportioned, it was at a cost of what could be done. The puppets in those two shows ‘walk’ or move far less than those in Thunderbirds and Stingray. You’ve got Lieutenant Green on his slidey chair – and Colonel White behind his rotating desk. They’re much more static. It’s a choice. You feel the later shows, including The Secret Service from 69 – which was half live action, half puppetry – were consciously trying to shake off their origins. I liked the darkness of Scarlet a lot, and I’d dearly love to find a way to deliver a version of it — but the artistry and scale of Stingray, together with the hopeful message of Thunderbirds, really makes them the yardstick, and what people tend to think of when they think of Century 21. The particular gait of the puppets, which has been providing comedians with much mileage for over half a century. News recently came through of the death of Alan Patillo at the age of 90. Writer and director for many of Anderson’s shows – his work was quite remarkable. In tribute, Stephen tweeted a link to the climax of The Perils of Penelope. Really — it’s a masterclass in suspense. Absolutely brilliant. A sequence of which Hitchcock or Spielberg would be proud.

DAMIAN: Jeff Slayton, CEO of the fictional Heaviside studios, describes Moon Rangers as a sort of ‘Bonanza in space’ which, of course, reminded me of Star Trek. Now, you often mention the Prime Directive whenever I ask a question regarding Endeavour’s past – typically with reference to Susan Fallon. I obviously understand that the Prime Directive in Star Trek means that Starfleet personnel are forbidden from interfering with the natural development of alien civilisations but can you clarify what is meant when you use it in reference to the Morse universe?

RUSS: It’s [also] Doc Brown’s warning to Marty, isn’t it?  We can’t do anything in the past which might change the future.

DAMIAN: Will Susan Fallon ever appear in Endeavour?

RUSS: Well, she sort of already has. She is standing in the group of mourners at her father’s funeral. We just didn’t pick her out or have her see Endeavour, as it felt that might undermine what they have to say to each other in Dead on Time.

LAZARETTO (S4:E3)

DAMIAN: Of course, APOLLO wasn’t all puppets and explosions, and although we’ll discuss some of the key moments regarding Endeavour and Thursday when we conclude our discussion on the themes of alienation, change, guilt and paranoia next time, I wanted to highlight two of my favourite scenes in this script. The first continues from where we began earlier at the vending machine:

THURSDAY: All well, sir?

BRIGHT: A sobering thing to discover so late in life that one is considered a fool.

THURSDAY: Not you, sir.

BRIGHT: Oh, yes. I’m under no illusion. I am a figure of ridicule. To be openly mocked and scorned. (off THURSDAY) This Pelican! — is an albatross around my neck. Someone even mentioned it to Mrs.Bright at Canasta the other evening. People laugh at me behind my back, and even to my face.

THURSDAY: More fool them. Seems to me we’re in the business of keeping the Queen’s Peace and preserving life and limb. This campaign of yours – you’ll probably never know how many lives you’ve saved. Hundreds. Thousands, maybe – by the time it’s done.

BRIGHT: I’ve always been able to rely on you. Well — I must meet a representation from the Oxford traders. Up in arms over parking restrictions.

BRIGHT goes. THURSDAY watches after him.

DAMIAN: Wonderfully played by both actors but Anton’s pause after ‘I’ve always been able to rely on you’ and the poignant look on his face was so moving and beautiful. Now, correct me if I’m wrong but this is the sort of scene, maybe because it doesn’t involve Endeavour or drive the mystery plot forward, that might easily have been deleted in the earlier days of the show. However, I’m confused as to why the following brilliant “best not go there…” scene which does feature Endeavour was not filmed in its entirety and much of the really insightful dialogue not included. Was this simply because of our old enemy screentime or a creative difference perhaps?

INT. CID/NEW COWLEY POLICE STATION

THURSDAY and BOX in BOX’s office. ENDEAVOUR and JOAN keeping an eye on FLORA and MATTHEW — sister helping her brother with his drawing on a blotter. JOAN at the window – eye on the glimpse of moon in the darkened sky.

JOAN: Mad to think there’s people up there. Right now. That someone could have looked out of the window like this and thought – ‘Right. We’re going there.’

ENDEAVOUR: “This was the prized, the desirable sight…” (off JOAN) Sorry. Being clever again. It’s always occupied the human imagination. Understandable, I suppose. But strange, all the same.

JOAN: Strange?

ENDEAVOUR: That something so far away and seemingly out of reach could bear so great an influence on one’s life. Even when you can’t see it. It’s still there. (best not go there…)

RUSS: It was shot. Shaun didn’t care for it and asked me to write another scene – which is the one that was broadcast.

DAMIAN: Finally, what can you tell us about tonight’s film, RAGA?

RUSS: The 1970 General Election is a backdrop. All in Wrestling has a part to play. Greeks Bearing Gifts had a notional influence upon it. It features an Indian restaurant, so probably best avoided by those who bleat about ‘Political correctness gone mad.’

DAMIAN: Just one more thing; you’re having tea with a friend and there are two cakes left on the plate – a large one of a kind you very much like, and a smaller, dry looking one. Which do you choose?

RUSS: Neither. I’ve never been fussed about cake.

DAMIAN: Please yourself.

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2020

Stay up to date with all my latest Endeavour cast and crew interviews via twitter @MrDMBarcroft

So, Russ is a hand model now is he? Hmm…

THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2020: RUSSELL LEWIS PART I

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An exclusive Endeavour interview with writer/deviser/executive producer Russell Lewis

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2020

‘I’m afraid I see little of anyone in Traffic, but you’re remembered – often. All my old Cowley gang. You, Inspector Thursday, Sergeant. Strange. Constable Trewlove. And young Fancy, of course. Absent friends. Not yet a year, and already our City days seem a lifetime ago. But there we are. A new decade just around the corner. Well, I must get on.’

Bright to Endeavour from the shooting script of CONFECTION (S6:E3)

DAMIAN: Recalling our very first round of interviews back when we were both still in shorts, I remembered you told me that Bright was ‘a man even more out of time than most in the 1960s’. Indeed, the same might also be said of Thursday, so I’m wondering how on earth the two of them are going to survive the 1970s?

RUSS: There is of course nothing to say that they will. But I think you’re asking about cultural and societal changes. Hot pants. Punk. The mind boggles. There was a little bit of Sir Robert Mark, I think, underpinning the creation of Bright. ‘If you drove like that, you’d deserve to be called…’ And one wonders what he might have made of a Day-Glo Mohican (Mohawk – for our friends across the Big Water) and bondage trousers. Gobbing. I think Thursday might wonder if such was what he fought a war for. The answer – of course – is that such is EXACTLY what he fought a war for. Perhaps, in truth, they’d have taken it all in their sagacious stride. From their end of the telescope – I can tell you – that one tends not to sweat the small stuff. And most things are filed under small stuff.

EXT. STREET – DAY 1

A couple of KIDDIES skip home from school. Off: the bingly-boingly tune of an ICE CREAM VAN. Kids stop and react to see:

Across two streets – at right angles — an ICE CREAM VAN parked up. The KIDDIES come to the kerb between parked cars. Traffic races past. As they start to cross — a gentle hand comes down on a shoulder…

BRIGHT: (Off-screen) Stop!

KIDDIES look to find BRIGHT beside them.

BRIGHT: (Cont’d) Wait a minute. Not so fast. That isn’t how you cross the road. If you step out here you could get badly hurt – or worse. Come along. Come with me.

DAMIAN: The first film of the last series, PYLON, opens – unusually – with Bright and your storylines for series 6 offered the opportunity for Anton Lesser to explore his character in many new dramatic ways. Was there a particular motivation on your part to make series 6 the year for Bright to shine?

RUSS: Well, I’d say Bright always shone. My admiration for Anton Lesser – as an artist and as a human being – knows no bounds. You know of old that his history is something I’ve been trying to include for several series. We got a hint of it with Dulcie, I think, at the end of series 5. A lot of people had been asking about the much mentioned Mrs. Bright, and wondered whether she was going to be another Mrs. Mainwaring or ‘Er Indoors. So it was lovely to meet her at last – albeit we were joining them at a moment of crisis.

DAMIAN: Bright’s Public Information Film is rather tame in comparison but do you remember how truly terrifying some of the actual ones made in the late 60s and early 70s were?

RUSS: I have several DVDs of Public Information Films — and half remember shooting one as a kid. But, yes, there were some terrifically sinister ‘Stranger Danger’ ones. Mummy Says – cut out animation pieces. Children’s artwork cut up and animated – with a child’s voice over. A sort of precursor to the much sampled ‘Charley Says…’ series. I think we all went around in the 60s and 70s in more or less a permanent background state of trauma and anxiety lest ‘a man’ offer us sweets or a ride in his car to a private viewing of some puppies. If said viewing took place adjacent to OPEN WATER or… a PYLON!!!!! Well… there you are. The Pelicon/Pelican crossing PIF was also animated. So we added Bright, a pelican and a catchphrase. Speaking of which…  ‘Clunk-Click’ I suppose covered all bases, insofar as you had a Road Safety PIF presented by an absolute danger to livestock.

BRIGHT: (Cont’d) There might not be a police officer or lollipop lady to help you cross the road, so always find a safe place to cross at a designated pedestrian crossing. And remember! “If the Pelican can – then so can you!”

BRIGHT salutes. Musical sting – “If the Pelican can, then so can you!”

DIRECTOR: (Off-screen) And… cut.

Off CAMERA – a Public Information Film Crew about its business. A few BYSTANDERS watching the fun. ‘Checking the Gate’ &c. The PELICAN WRANGLER moves in with a bucket of fish. BRIGHT – the star of the show – ignored.

BRIGHT: (to the DIRECTOR) Was that alright? You know, I’m not sure I would salute…

DIRECTOR: (Off-screen) It’s in the script.

DAMIAN: It’s in the script! – if only that was the policy of all directors. This lovely end to the original opening scene with Bright was cut but was there ever a concern as to what extent a character of such dignity and respect should be humiliated by his demotion?

RUSS: No. Not in the slightest. As you say – knowing quite how much dignity and his place in the world meant to Bright – to cast him down from a high place into something quite else was integral to the design. He was hurt and humiliated and it hurt us to see him brought so low.

DAMIAN: Is Shaun Evans a ‘It’s in the script’ kind of director’?

RUSS: Well – it’s funny isn’t it…  A scene that ends with ‘It’s in the script’ – having that bit cut out in the edit. If I remember, Damien Timmer [executive producer and joint-managing director of the production company, Mammoth Screen] felt it was too arch and knowing. So — no director was responsible for that particular dropped stitch. We’ve been very well served by our directors, amongst whom I’d number Shaun – and I’m enormously grateful to them for all they bring to the party. I’d also refer you back to the two signs on my office wall — ‘Television is a collaborative medium’ and ‘Collaborators will be shot!’

EXT. ROAD/SERGEANT’S HOUSE/WOODSTOCK POLICE OUTPOST – DAY 2

A high, lonely stretch of road. Summer fields. Distant PYLONS. A BLACK ZEPHYR comes into view. It slows and pulls off the road outside a SERGEANT’S HOUSE – the only building for miles. A PANDA car parked outside.

CUT TO:

INT. FRONT OFFICE/WOODSTOCK POLICE OUTPOST

Heat gone from the day. The soft long light of a late summer’s evening falls on a patch of wall spotted with POLICE ‘PUBLIC INFORMATION’ POSTERS – bathing all in gold and lime…

…Double doors give on to a narrow vestibule/hall – a hard bench against a wall. Facing the open doors – a drop-leaf counter beyond which, the suggestion of a back room, from whence OPERATIC MUSIC floods the building.

ANGLE – SERVICE BELL on the counter. Beyond – out of focus – a UNIFORM sits with his back towards us, typing at a desk.

A hand comes down on the Service bell.

VISITOR: (Off-screen) Shop!

UNIFORM rises – comes to the counter, and we recognise – ENDEAVOUR in full Thames Valley blues – three stripes on his sleeve. And sporting a moustache. His visitor – STRANGE – a touch of Brylcreem. Three-piece suit. Chelsea Boots.

STRANGE: This is where you’ve been keeping yourself, is it?

ENDEAVOUR’S not going to make it easy. A distance has fallen between them. Things unsaid, and for too long.

DAMIAN: Alienation, change, guilt and paranoia. These are the words that I would use to describe series 6. We’ll perhaps come to some of the others later, but let’s discuss change for now. It’s 1st July, 1969 and, as scripted, you describe a demolition scene complete with wrecking ball and three new high-rise tower-blocks in various stages of completion beyond. Later, Thursday is about to light his pipe but changes his mind and you end the description of this scene simply with the words ‘Out with the old.’

INT. THURSDAY’S OFFICE/CID/POLICE STATION – DAY 9

THURSDAY in his office — filling his pipe. As he goes to light it… He looks across the way to BOX’s office – wherein; BOX and JAGO laughing it up – clinking drinks.

THURSDAY shakes out the match – lays his pipe aside. Out with the old.

Now, I appreciate the more obvious elements such as the fact that we are in a new police station and find many of the characters in new positions, but I also wondered to what extent series 6 might be seen as the beginning of the final act of Endeavour while also memorialising a bygone age of innocence?

RUSS: Yes, I think that’s right. George Fancy – the death of a young colleague – was to my mind the end of the innocence. They’d all taken their knocks – one way or another – and bore them each alone. One can bear one’s own pain — because whatever the level of personal discomfort – emotional or physical – one knows it’s finite, typically. But something like George… That’s something none of them can fix. That’s with them now. Always.

INT. COACH (TRAVELLING) – DAY…

ENDEAVOUR’s POV: through breaks in the ragged hedgeline, distant glimpses of that city of cupola and aquatint…

ENDEAVOUR stares out of the window. The music swells, soaring cor anglais in excelsis…

EXT. OXFORD – DAY

Towers and spires float above the treeline. An aching, giddying, tremulous beauty. Eden before the fall.

Excerpts from First Bus to Woodstock (Shooting draft)

DAMIAN: Eden before the fall. You have created such a rich and rounded world that I almost find it hard to imagine a time when there was only Inspector Morse and Lewis. However, recalling one beautiful day back in January 2012, when a young and sanguine Morse was first introduced to the world, I have a sense that both he and the show were a lot more optimistic in 1965 than 1969. Given some of the more recent storylines – for example, series 5 which Damien Timmer would call the “angry” year – and the resulting character developments, do you think you were also a lot more optimistic as both a writer and a person in 2012 than you are today?

RUSS: Oh, I’m always optimistic. Always. Take the long view. We’re an extraordinary species. Right now we’re in the middle of a f*ck-awful catastrophe of our own making – but we’ll fix it.  It’s what we do. We’re the problem solving ape. And supposedly uniquely the only type with mortality salience. Awareness of Dying (1965) is good on this. So, the remarkable Greta Thunberg gives cause for hope. The Extinction Rebellion. It feels like we are standing upon one of those fulcrums of history that come along every so often. The way we’ve lived is – to coin a phrase – unsustainable. Also – that old saw, we must love one another or die.

INT. CID/POLICE STATION – DAY 3

ENDEAVOUR exits the lift and comes through to CID OFFICE. The place is buzzing. Phones ring. CID scurry hither and yon. The air thick with cigarette smoke. A moment as he takes it all in.

DCI BOX’s OFFICE off the main drag. THURSDAY’S considerably smaller office. He crosses to a MURDER BOARD — O.S. MAP of the area pinned there. PHOTO of ANN KIRBY. ENDEAVOUR sets an evidence bag down. THURSDAY enters – comes across…

ENDEAVOUR: My report. Syringe is in the bag.

THURSDAY: I’ll see the Guv’nor gets it.

ENDEAVOUR: Anything?

THURSDAY: Early days. You know how it is.

Seeing ENDEAVOUR in CID is more ‘yesterday’ than THURSDAY can bear.

DAMIAN: Both as scripted and shot, how significant is it that the audience first see the new police station, Castle Gate, from Endeavour’s perspective?

RUSS: Absolutely key. We wanted the audience to experience it along with him – and share in his sense of alienation. Change is always unsettling.

DAMIAN: I mentioned paranoia earlier and when I interviewed the production designer of series 5 and 6, Paul Cripps, we discussed how Alan J Pakula’s paranoia trilogy of Klute (1971), The Parallax View (1974) and All the President’s Men (1976) influenced the look and feel of the new CID set. Why were these important to you and how do you think the influence manifests itself in the finished films of series 6?

RUSS: Ah, dear Paul — top man. Certainly the intent was to have a chillier milieu, something lacking the warm, woody tones and cosiness of Cowley. Looking at my pictorial history of Oxford City police, we did draw on the real world new station that seemed to come in with the change from City to Thames Valley. We’ve always wanted it to feel like something that’s evolving naturally – rather than something preserved in aspic.

DAMIAN: And are there any films or television that might have served as visual references for the production designer, Madelaine Leech, this year on series 7?

RUSS: Um… Oddly… Don’t Look Now – a little bit.

Don’t Look Now (1973)

DAMIAN: From your own experience and perspective of the 1970s, which historical, social or cultural events shaped the decade?

RUSS: Crikey. How long have you got? Heath government. Three Day Week. Blackouts. Joining the EC. Oil crisis. ‘75 Referendum. That summer. Jubilee. Winter of Discontent. And then the great misfortune. But across it all – ‘The Troubles’ – as we euphemistically call them. Like a running sore. Blood and dirty protests and hunger strikes and Long Kesh, and knee-capping, and tarred and feathered, and Guildford and Birmingham, and Balcombe Street, and the Disappeared. All of it seemingly played out against the World in Action theme tune. Beyond that – the ever present threat of nuclear annihilation. But I wouldn’t want you to think it was all fun and laughter. The New Economics Foundation – a think tank that does such things – looked into it, and, having looked into it, came to the conclusion that, based on an index of social, economic and environmental factors, 1976 was the best year on record for the quality of life in Britain. I think that The Good Life and Fawlty Towers landing the year before, and The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin being broadcast in ‘76 (Rising Damp and Porridge were also running) may have had something to do with it. Perhaps it’s all down to Leonard Rossiter.

But there certainly was a sort of confidence in the air. Abigail’s Party was almost upon us. What market-research nodes and New Labour would later distill as an ‘aspirational’ mindset. We touched upon it a bit in APOLLO [S6:E2] with that Lotus Eater swinger set. An internationalism seemed to be in play. The uptake in foreign package holidays was really getting into its stride.  Jeux Sans Frontieres – which we also nodded to. A sense that we were part of something different and that different was exciting. Beverly’s penchant for Demis Roussos is on one level wildly funny – but as with putting the red wine in the fridge, we are being invited to laugh at her pretentions towards the cosmopolitan.

You’ll also notice around the middle of the decade that ads for things like Campari – ‘Were you truly wafted here from paradise?’, Martini and Cinzano were suddenly everywhere. The Cointreau Christmas ad. All of this spoke to an exoticism – a world beyond our shores. Britain was on the up.

DAMIAN: And looking back at First Bus to Woodstock right up to the end of series 6, were there any historical, social or cultural events that you would have liked to have squeezed in from 1965 to ‘69 but weren’t able to for some reason or another?

RUSS: The death of Hancock. On one level I’m sorry we didn’t mark it – but on another… in our through a glass darkly world, I like to think The Lad Himself is still out there, the fictional Anthony Aloysious St. John Hancock, sometime actor, and general chiseller. There was a grain of hopeful, canine optimism in Galton & Simpson’s version of Hancock that somehow eluded the real man. Well – there’s booze for you. Don’t do it, kids.

HRH PRINCE CHARLES (Voice over): “I, Charles, do become your liege man of life and limb and of earthly worship, and faith and truth I bear unto you, to live and die against all manner of folks.”

DAMIAN: Why was it important to include the investiture of Prince Charles?

RUSS: It’s a memory. My old man was from the Valleys, and was in Wales for his annual fortnightly family visit/holiday at the time of the Investiture. He brought me back a Welsh flag. We had a commemorative mug, too, that I remember. In terms of the design – it’s a handover, isn’t it — or a least the foreshadowing of one. Though one imagines Endeavour has a lot shorter wait to come into his estate than the Prince of Wales.

DAMIAN: As with many aspects of the country at the moment, opinion seems divided regarding the Royle Family. Do you think a character like Endeavour is less likely to be sympathetic towards the monarchy than, say, Thursday or Bright?

RUSS: Well, I think we’ve seen Bright’s starry-eyed encounter with Princess Margaret [ROCKET, S1:E3]. And there would have been a deference hard-wired into Thursday, I suppose. Endeavour – ambivalent at best.

STRANGE: Back to the day-job, then. That was quite nice while it lasted. Bit like the good old days.

ENDEAVOUR: Which were they? Remind me.

DAMIAN: The delightful little social or cultural references in your scripts often resonate with people who personally remember the 60s or 70s and PYLON has quite a few but what really struck a chord with me was simply ‘Mrs. KIRBY pops three fish-fingers under the grill’. Can you describe the smells coming from your kitchen during the late 60s or early 70s?

RUSS: As you know, my domestic arrangements were singular — so the kitchen was more redolent of the Long Weekend. Another slice of gravy, anyone? Our kitchen was a death trap. Health and Safety… just wasn’t a thing. That I am here at all is pure luck. Smells coming from the kitchen? Boiling lard. Seriously. Boiling lard. I’m not sure we’re quite there yet with Endeavour — but the rise of the DEEP FREEZE, so beloved of serial killers, is on its way. Whole livestock carcasses. WHY? Oh, it was a bargain, was it? Suddenly, a dead sheep is on the premises – dismembered and resembling something reclaimed from the tundra permafrost. Arctic Roll? You’re darn tootin’.

INT. ENDEAVOUR’S FLAT/SERGEANTS HOUSE/WOODSTOCK POLICE OUTPOST – DAY 2

Above the shop. It’s seen better days. Some drinks later.

STRANGE: So, what’s the Blues all about?

ENDEAVOUR: CID closed a month after I got to Woodstock. Budget. It was uniform or nothing.

STRANGE: You could’ve gone elsewhere.

ENDEAVOUR leaves that possibility hanging – unanswered…

DAMIAN: Since Endeavour left that possibility hanging, could you perhaps answer on his behalf please?

RUSS: Of course, he couldn’t. He had unfinished business.

… ENDEAVOUR: What about you?

STRANGE: You know me. I’m doing alright.

ENDEAVOUR: There was a piece in the Gazette about an Inter-Departmental something or other.

STRANGE: The Inter-Departmental Forward Strategy Steering Committee.

ENDEAVOUR: Steering what exactly?

STRANGE: Resources. Man-power. It’s a sort of ‘quasi-managerial anticipatory role.’

The management speaks rolls trippingly off the tongue, as from one to the manner born…

DAMIAN: Sometimes a figure of fun but always a thoroughly decent and dependable chap. The beautifully written transition from the Strange in GIRL (S1:E1) to the one we see in THE DEAD OF JERICHO is happening so gradually and subtlety but to what extent are his advancements attributable to the Lodge or his own good character and hard work?

RUSS: I’m enormously fond of Riggers and of all that he’s brought to Strange. He’s a fearsomely good young actor. I’ve seen him on stage, and I can tell you, with Strange we barely scratch the surface of what he can do. Yet we may, Mister Frodo – yet we may. As with all our company, we’ve been enormously fortunate — and I really do admire and respect young Mister Rigby. He’s an absolute gift. His level of preparedness and professionalism… Anybody out there would be lucky to work with him. We see a lot more of Strange in Endeavour, of course, than we ever saw of Jimmy Grout in Inspector Morse. And that’s given us the opportunity to feather in some history beyond that in the series or in the novels. I think he’s hugely able, and that we’ve barely begun to tap into his talents as a copper and a detective. The Lodge has its part to play — but Strange is no fool trading on a funny handshake and an apron. 

STRANGE: (lightly) Seen the old man?

ENDEAVOUR: I called the house a few times. Left messages.

STRANGE: I’d’ve told ‘em where to stick it.

ENDEAVOUR: Would you? (they both know STRANGE wouldn’t) Division doesn’t like losing police officers.

STRANGE: Full Disciplinary, though? Busted down a rank? It wasn’t right. (a moment) And we’re still no nearer to finding who did for George.

ENDEAVOUR: ‘We’? I’m here. You’re there. He’s at Castle Gate. Mister Bright at Traffic. There isn’t a we – not any more – nor likely to be.

STRANGE: We said…

ENDEAVOUR: You said. (beat; off STRANGE) I don’t blame you. Heat of the moment. Like the last day of school. Solemn oaths and giddy declarations. ‘We happy few…’

STRANGE: I meant it.

ENDEAVOUR: I’m sure. (beat) But that’s not how it turned out. It’s never how these things turn out.

WIDE – two old friends, coffee table between them – the width of an ocean.

DAMIAN: You know, I increasingly find myself siding with Strange and other supporting characters rather than Endeavour. Indeed, like Strange, I’m often ‘baffled and appalled’ by his attitude. Another example would be the vicious way he mocks Joan’s attempts to improve herself in APOLLO (S6:E2). Maybe it’s just me, but isn’t this a bit of a problem considering he’s the main character?

RUSS: Well, with Joan, of course — ‘If he can’t have her, he must hurt her.’ It’s a mess. What can I tell you? But, in the example you mention, it’s a man putting off the dread hour. If we’re going to look at it in terms of the wretched paradigm, this is the ‘Refusal of the Call to Adventure.’ Barf! There’s a scene with Max that didn’t make the cut – that you’ll have read [this will be included in another interview], where again, Endeavour is really doing his best not to be dragged back into the fray. He’s bleeding. Fancy’s death is chewing him up. He doesn’t want to be the hero that the universe is demanded he becomes. And so he’s dismissive of Strange’s overt camaraderie.  We’re back to Bogart — ‘I stick my neck out for nobody.’

ENDEAVOUR at his ablutions. The face that looks back in the mirror is one he hardly recognises. Emotional permafrost. The only clue that this is still our ENDEAVOUR is a wounded look in his eye, for which there is no balm.

DAMIAN: Does Shaun ever have reservations regarding the likeability of his character or does he relish exploring the deep complexity of Endeavour?

RUSS: I always imagine it to be the latter.

EXT. SERGEANT’S HOUSE/WOODSTOCK POLICE OUTPOST

Dusk. ENDEAVOUR walks STRANGE over to his car.

STRANGE: Well, then, matey.

ENDEAVOUR: Let me know next time. I’ll bake a cake.

STRANGE turns for his car – and then turns back.

STRANGE: Oh, I saw Joanie. Said to say hullo if I ran into you.

ENDEAVOUR lets the conversational ball drop.

STRANGE: (CONT’D) Started in as a trainee with the Welfare. So, I suppose it all works out in the end. (turns at his car) We shouldn’t let it go — what happened to George. (off ENDEAVOUR’s indifference) Don’t you care?

ENDEAVOUR: Would it make a difference?

DAMIAN: Tell me about Joan’s new job and the introduction of Viv?

RUSS: I think I’ve said before that I’m deeply invested in her journey – Joan and Win, actually – representing, as they do, two generations of women – a mother and daughter at a hinge of history. And again with Dorothea Frazil – very much a woman in a man’s world – taking a claw-hammer to the glass ceiling. On one level – with the coppers being coppers there’s a danger that it turns into something very blokey. If you’re going to try to paint in some social history beyond the whodunitry, then why would you exclude the greater half the population?

And – again, as I’ve said before – having put Joan through some difficult experiences, it felt right to have her reclaim agency over her own life. Her life, her rules, her way. She’s had quite enough of blokes for the time being, thank you very much — now it’s about her. Her wants and needs. I’d always seen her as someone with a lot to give to the world — and it seemed right that she would move into Welfare – particularly Children’s Welfare – right at the point that people’s need for that service was expanding. There was a show in the early 70s called Helen, A Woman of Today which had that Aznavour hit, ‘She’ as its theme tune. It starred Alison Fiske and Martin Shaw – and was really ahead of its time in the way it put a woman at the centre of the drama, and explored the story from her point of view. Hugely important show. So, there was that, and then an afternoon show with Stephanie Beacham called Marked Personal about the ‘Personnel’ department (HR nowadays) of a large business. Again – that had, in the phrase du jour, a ‘female-centric’ approach. Within These Walls – the Women’s Prison drama with Googie Withers and Mona Washbourne – was also contemporary with these, and clearly made some kind of impression. I suppose all of this fed into how Joan is developing. It seemed like a rich area for us to explore, and I’m sure will prove so. You know, Sara Vickers is just an amazing talent, and I love to write for her. It’s always a thrill to see her work – so intelligent, so sensitive. Enormously grateful to her.

DAMIAN: I’m sure we’ll talk about Thursday in a lot more detail in another one of our interviews but for now, I was wondering if the Clemence subplot was always a part of his backstory or created specifically for this film?

RUSS: I think it was always something at the back of my mind. That because much of his work would have taken place while we still had capital punishment, he would have helped send people to the gallows. Also, in terms of all that followed, combined with the situation he’d found himself in courtesy of Charlie, it undermined him further still.

EXT/NT. 13 JUBILEE ROW – NIGHT XI (FLASHBACK – 1954)

Night and rain. A trench-coated DETECTIVE SERGEANT THURSDAY crosses from CID CAR parked outside – past UNIFORMS and into a house.

Blood spatter up the walls.

In the back parlour – A WOMAN lies dead in a pool of blood. It’s a pretty squalid environment. UNIFORMS, PHOTOGRAPHER, the usual paraphernalia. A flash gun goes off.

Near the body – a PLAYPEN in which a TODDLER (2) stands in a romper suit – bawling its eyes out. THURSDAY reacts — heartstruck. He sweeps the child up from the PLAYPEN, and carries him out.

CUT TO:

INT. THURSDAY’S OFFICE/POLICE STATION – NIGHT 3

ENDEAVOUR: Who killed his mother?

THURSDAY: His father. Philip Clemence. Commercial traveller. Knocked out brushes – door to door.

ENDEAVOUR: He go down for it?

THURSDAY, a moment — darkness here.

DAMIAN: Darkness. You know, I can’t help but think that Thursday’s backstory regarding his younger days in the army and subsequent formative years in the police would make a great film in it’s own right.

RUSS: Only if – as with Sam Vimes and John Keel – Roger could act as mentor (for a while at least!) to his younger self. But yes — when we all turn our warrant cards, I have half an idea to explore Thursday’s London career, but not as a television piece.

INT. GALLOWS – DAY X2 (FLASHBACK – 1954)

PHILIP CLEMENCE’s hands are pinioned by PIERREPOINT. White cloth back goes over his head.

CLEMENCE: I didn’t do it. I’m innocent. Thursday!

PIERREPOINT pulls the handle…

DAMIAN: Pierrepoint was the famous hangman who exectued hundreds including the Acid Bath Murderer and the Rillington Place Strangler as well as more contentious executions such as Timothy Evans and Derek Bentley. Is the latter point the reason you reference him in the script and, if so, why wasn’t this made more explicit in the film?

RUSS: It was there more as a grace note.

Albert Pierrepoint (1905-1992)

EXT. MAX’S HOUSE – DAY 6

ENDEAVOUR on the doorstep. MAX opens the door — wearing a cook’s apron, and with a knife in hand, he looks as if he’s just stepped out of his mortuary.

MAX: (re: the knife) Nothing sinister. I was just getting a seedcake out of the oven.

DAMIAN: Nothing sinister is another Russ-ism – you often say that, you know? Anyway, I loved this scene and was thrilled to finally catch a glimpse of Max’s house and I thought both the baking and his love for gardening was a great insight into how he manages to keep his two worlds at a safe distance.

MAX: Have to give it [the seedcake] half an hour to cool. Well – this is a first. (re: drinks) Splash more?

MAX knocks up a Whisky Mac – scotch and ginger wine over ice.

ENDEAVOUR: Been here long?

MAX: Eight years? Yes. Eight years. Don’t know what I’d do without it, to be honest. How d’you know where I live, by the way?

ENDEAVOUR: You’re in the book. (re: the house and garden) Nice.

MAX: I’m fighting a war of attrition with the greenfly over the tea-roses. Not very successfully, it must be said. But, yes – as a spot I’m rather fond. (a moment) Something has to be lovely, doesn’t it?

DAMIAN: Later in the scene, Max says that ‘I shan’t flatter myself it’s altogether a social call…’ and I was wondering – as is the case in the original Colin Dexter novels – if we will see the point in their relationship where they do actually socialise together?

RUSS: Yes, Jimmy lost out a bit here, insofar as there was an Endeavour taking his leave of Max scene that followed on which I’d thought was quite important [again, this will be included in a later interview]. A spur to Endeavour’s flanks – or at least a prick to his conscience. Perhaps one day we’ll include all the outtakes in the definitive, all our sins remembered, DVD collection. It felt right – Max acting as Jiminy (Jimmy) Cricket to Endeavour’s little wooden boy.

I’m sure we will get to see them socialise more at some point — should we last that long. But in terms of this run of films, it was as much about underlining Endeavour’s own rootlessness at that point. His lack of somewhere to call his own — which would eventually bear fruit at the other end of the run.

DAMIAN: What can you tell us about the first film of series 7, ORACLE?

RUSS: Well, I realised that with all the other things that had to be taken care of in ‘69, I hadn’t gone out of my way to particularly dial up the Scare the Bejesus Meter, and thought those that care for such might have felt left out. So… With that in mind, and as they used to say in the comics, A Happy New Year to All Our Readers.

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2020

Stay up to date with all my latest Endeavour cast and crew interviews by following me on twitter @MrDMBarcroft

THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2019: Matthew Slater

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For me, as an aficionado of Horror and German Expressionist Cinema, I know that some of the most potent screen images come from those early silent films such as Cesare abducting and dragging his prey across the oblique cityscape in The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920), the shadow of Count Orlok slowly ascending the staircase in Nosferatu (1922) and the thrillingly iconic creation of Maria in Metropolis (1927). These films, along with many others directed by cinematic pioneers like FW Murnau and Fritz Lang, inspired and influenced the Hollywood Horror Film and paved the way for the Universal Monster Cycle of the thirties and forties among other masterpieces of the genre.

And yet, when Universal first resurrected a host of classic gothic literary monsters for the sound era, they were reluctant to fully embrace the transition from silent film to talkies and the art of the music score. Many films frequently had music over the opening and closing title cards but anything more was usually restricted to diegetic (source) music such as if a character was at a concert, playing a record or listening to the radio. Indeed, their defining productions of Dracula and Frankenstein (both 1931) scream out for a full orchestral soundtrack. However, when James Whale was persuaded to direct a sequel, The Bride of Frankenstein (1935), this time the monster demanded a music score and it remains one of the greatest examples of the art of scoring a horror picture ever composed.

Given my affection for classic monster movies and their music, I was most intrigued to hear that the second episode of series five of Endeavour would feature a Mummy! I’d already met and later interviewed composer Matthew Slater and so I was obviously aware of the virtuoso and genius inventiveness that has immeasurably enhanced the mystery, the thrills and the romance of Endeavour. But how would Matt approach scoring an episode about an aged horror icon visiting Oxford to promote his latest cinematic tale of terror? I’m very pleased to have the opportunity of interviewing Matt again to talk about the making of CARTOUCHE and the horror film scores that have inspired him…

The monster demands a mate! And a music score…

The monster demands a music score!
– An exclusive interview with composer Matthew Slater

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2019

Header image © Anne Miller

Black and white photography © Geraint Morgan Photography

DAMIAN: Matt, I’m thinking back to the first truly great and influential Horror/Fantasy film scores and two obvious examples immediately spring to mind that I’d like to discuss, Max Steiner’s King Kong (1933) and Franz Waxman’s The Bride of Frankenstein (1935), unless you can think of anything that predates these?

MATT: Considering that just a little bit before those dates we were still in the land of silent movies, I think you’re probably right.  I’m sure there were some fantastic scores improvised by the musicians playing along at the time, but yes, I’d agree with you over Steiner and Waxman being the big boys.  Or, in films like Dracula in 1931, no bespoke score was recorded, and classics were used instead, which could also bring equal power and emotion to a movie. A concept not foreign to Kubrick.

DAMIAN: Let’s deal with Max Steiner first who, I think, composed over a hundred and fifty scores including music for Gone With the Wind (1939) Casablanca (1942), The Big Sleep (1946), The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948) and The Searchers (1956) to name but a few. However, would you say that it was King Kong that established him as one of early Hollywood’s most important composers?

MATT:  I think King Kong certainly had a significant impact on Steiner’s career by its sheer Wagnerian size, much like Kong’s stature in fact.  His use of themes and leitmotifs which have become commonplace these days would also play an extensive part in the success of the film. Bernard Hermann and Eric Korngold were also around at the same time and writing some fantastic scores.  The list could go on, but depends on whether we’re just talking about the horror and fantasy genres at that time.

DAMIAN: As a composer, can you explain the impact that the score had on audiences back then and why it continues to be so influential today in terms of elevating the status and respectability of the monster and fantasy genres?

MATT: If I knew that, I’d be John Williams!!  I think therein lies the answer though.  It’s not always the tune that bears the most importance in a film, its what it is designed to accompany on screen and how to emote the audience at that point.  That’s the genius of people like Rozsa, Steiner, Waxman, Hermann, Goldsmith and Williams. Matching the tune to that moment in time.

DAMIAN: Can you highlight some its defining musical features so that a layman such as myself without any musical knowledge or training can go back to the score and understand its monumental achievements?

MATT: Simply put, it’s the operatic feel, nature and enormity of the score which often gets that Wagnerian label.   A nod to Tristan und Isolde probably goes a little way to help that association with Steiner’s King Kong. Perhaps his use of unconventional harmony might also go to make that bond between the two composers.  Again, it’s not necessarily the notes or harmony themselves that particularly define a composer but more their application and placement in film, opera or ballet. Hermann’s Cape Fear and those descending intervals for instance. Inseparable. John William’s three-note Jaws motif, inexorably linked to the fish with the big teeth.

DAMIAN: And Franz Waxman, another prolific and groundbreaking Hollywood composer with credits such as Rebecca, The Philadelphia Story (both 1940), Suspicion (1941), Sunset Boulevard (1950), and Rear Window (1954), to what extent did he advance the parameters for the potential of horror film music even further than Steiner with his sophisticated and multifaceted score for Bride?

MATT:  I think all composers draw upon each other for the development of their respective genres, it’s almost impossible not to.  Much like score styles go in and out of fashion all the time. Look at the recent moves we’ve had towards scores become a more sound design element to films rather than having distinctive musical context and harmonic structure.  I’m not saying they are lesser scores by any means at all, just a fashion, as were electronic scores in the 70’s and 80’s. Even orchestral scores have gone in and out of appeal over the life of cinema and TV. I think the question might require a somewhat lengthy essay on the matter, so I’ll thin it down a little if you don’t object.

When it comes to comedy and horror the music plays an enormously important role.  Take the score away and see how well defined those moments become. As I’ve mentioned before, for me, it’s the application of the music rather than the specifics of thematic, harmonic and textual content.  As important as those facets are, the genius is also in the placement.

DAMIAN: Personally, I’d go as far as to say that the music to the final scenes with the creation of the Bride, with the constant thumping heartbeat-like repetition and the chimes evoking wedding bells, is the single most thrilling and exhilarating moment in the history of horror scores. Again, can you highlight some of the tricks the composer uses here to create both the horror and pathos of the scene?

MATT:  Waxman’s use of low ostinati, low woods, timpani and brass give that feeling of doom and impending horror giving way to the full slush and pathos of high string chord portomenti patterns.  Tubular bells and harp give that bridal feel all within those moments after “she’s alive!!”. A hint of Wagner’s Bridal Chorus perhaps in some perverse way?

DAMIAN: I don’t know if anyone else has ever thought of this but Frankenstein’s monster meets the blind man who is playing Schubert’s Ave Maria, do you think given James Whale’s celebrated dark sense of humour, that this was a joke because the little girl drowned by the monster in the first Frankenstein was called Maria?

MATT: I’ll pop along to my next local pub quiz, put that on the list of questions and get back to you.

DAMIAN: Endeavour’s ears may well be pricking up right about now because both the music of Steiner and Waxman have elements of Wagner as you’ve mentioned which might also be viewed as an extension of the German Romantic tradition and also the fact that so much opera has embraced elements of the supernatural such as scenes incorporating gods, monsters and magic. To what extent do you think operatic terms like Ombra and Sturm und Drang can be applied to the scores for Kong and Bride?

MATT: Take the picture away from Kong and Bride, add a few lyrics, a stage, singers – arguably not then operas and therefore applicable?  Joking aside, I think you’re probably right; they could well apply. Demons and misunderstood creatures feature in score in terms of horror, pathos and misconstrued perceptions.

DAMIAN: In addition to Kong and Bride, I’ve come up with a list of what I consider to be some of the greatest or influential music scores in either the horror, thriller or monster film genre: Dracula (1958, James Bernard), Vertigo (1958, Bernard Herrmann), Psycho (1960, Herrmann), Cape Fear (1962, Herrmann), Jaws (1975, John Williams), The Omen (1976, Jerry Goldsmith), The Silence of the Lambs (1991, Howard Shore) and Bram Stoker’s Dracula (1992, Wojciech Kilar). What would you add to this list?

MATT: You’ve left me some thinking to do as we have a very similar list – although with my last choice it’s a combo between score and use of songs that works so well.  The Thing (1982, John Carpenter), Clash Of The Titans (1981, Laurence Rosenthal), Alien (1979, Jerry Goldsmith), Arrival (2016, Johann Johannsson), Poltergeist (1982, Jerry Goldsmith),  Presumed Innocent (1990, John Williams) and Guardians Of The Galaxy 2 (2017, Michael Giacchino).

DAMIAN: I suppose after the Universal Horror Cycle, the other most significant series of classic monster reinventions arrived on the screen courtesy of Hammer and although they employed various other great composers such as Tristram Cary, Don Ellis, Christopher Gunning, Laurie Johnson, Carlo Martelli, Mario Nascimbene, Franz Reizenstein, Harry Robinson, David Whitaker and Malcolm Williamson, to what extent do you think James Bernard was responsible for the sound we now associate with the studio and did you watch or listen to the soundtracks of any of their Mummy series as research for CARTOUCHE?

MATT:  Subconsciously, who knows.  But no, I didn’t listen to anything before scoring CARTOUCHE.

DAMIAN: I think your music for Endeavour far exceeds the expectations of any recent television drama series, but I was completely blown away by the music for CARTOUCHE – especially the ‘March of the Mummy’ theme. It was simply stunning and completely indistinguishable from a big-budget Hollywood score. Tell me about some of your first ideas in response to Russ’ script, the retro sound, the orchestration and choice of instruments… Matt, just bloody tell me everything please?

MATT:  Thank you so much!   There was so very little time to score those moments as I initially thought we were going to clear something original for use.  I think I wrote those moments the day before the recording session. I’ve always been a big believer of putting the music budget on the screen, so since I’ve been scoring Endeavour, we’re using the size of the orchestra not uncommon in feature films.   Mammoth Screen’s excellent appreciation of the importance of music in Endeavour has been a significant factor in what we can now achieve. Russ’ characters always seem to conjure their themes almost instantly. The strength of screenwriting helps enormously with music.

DAMIAN: Was there a guide music score for this film?

MATT: Some, but with the more recent films we’ve been using far less guide music than ever before which allows for a much broader scope of music context, remit and creativity.

DAMIAN: I know Russ is obviously a huge enthusiast but was the director, Andy Wilson, also a fan of the horror genre and can you tell us a little bit about working with him during the spotting session?

MATT:  You’d have to ask Andy about that; however, he was an excellent director with which to collaborate.  Allowing me to do what I needed to do, told me what he liked and didn’t, I revised then we achieved completion — all in a matter of hours at the review process in my studio.    A joy.

DAMIAN: During our first interview, we discussed the influence of working with Barrington for over twenty years and the extent to which you balance honouring and respecting the musical heritage of Morse, Lewis and Endeavour, while also enjoying the freedom to creatively pursue your own or new styles and tastes. Do you agree, particularly with series six, that you seem to be increasingly experimental (APOLLO is perhaps a good example of this?) in extending this soundscape while still remaining consistent with music universe of Endeavour?

MATT:  The path of now scoring the majority of Endeavour has been laden with many challenges.  I’d rather not go into details over the whys and wherefores. However, what I will say is that I’ve slowly been able to make Endeavour more my style while still hopefully keeping the viewers feeling like they aren’t suddenly watching a complete different series; but we have moved on and are developing the sound of Endeavour while still nodding to the Oxford history.

Absolutely.  Endeavour is a robust set of stories and characters and constantly evolving plots. Score wise we need to reflect that; otherwise, the music becomes static. What I try to do is add a score personality to each episode, so if you heard the score in isolation, you could probably guess the film from which it came. Thank you for noticing!

DAMIAN: You also told me that working on each film presents its own excitement and challenges as every film is so different in terms of the musical demands. Which film of series six have you found to be the most challenging or demanding this year?

MATT: Having far less guide score this year has made the whole process more comfortable and more creative.   I’m very fortunate to be trusted to that extent, and it’s a huge honour to work with Damien, Deanne, Russ, Helen, Shaun in his capacity as director, Johnny and Jamie plus and all the cast and crew.  It’s a dream to be part of such a family. I have to mention Abbey Road, Air Studios, The London Metropolitan Orchestra, Accorder/Peer, Paul Golding and everyone that’s part of making the music work.  It’s a massive team effort.

DAMIAN: Finally, as I think I’ve mentioned to you before, I own all the Morse albums that have ever been released in addition to the ones for Lewis and Endeavour but I’ve played these in rotation every time I start work on new interviews with the cast and crew which I began in 2013 – I need something new! I’m sure like myself, there are many fans who would like to buy the COMPLETE scores from EVERY series of Endeavour. What are the chances of this, or at least a highlights album, actually happening?

MATT:  I’m always overwhelmed about people asking for the music, and it’s something I’d love to be able to provide.    We’ll do our best to make something happen. Watch this space.

DAMIAN: Matt, thank you very much indeed.

MATT:  It’s always a pleasure, thank you for such challenging questions!!!

THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2019: Damien Timmer

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An exclusive interview with the executive producer of Endeavour and managing director of Mammoth Screen.

Rise of the Mammuthus primigenius

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2019

DAMIAN: I’d like to start by going back to what, in many respects, might be retrospectively viewed as the beginning with your work as a script editor on THE WAY THROUGH THE WOODS. I find it absolutely remarkable and also somewhat affecting to think both you and Russell Lewis began a friendship and professional working relationship on the original Inspector Morse series and continued your shared journey together through the Colin Dexter Universe with Lewis and now, of course, six series of Endeavour which is arguably even better than either of its prestigious predecessors. Can you tell me a little bit about meeting Russ for the first time and your initial impressions of him?

DAMIEN: It would have been just before I worked on THE WAY THROUGH THE WOODS twenty-five years ago. I was at Central Films in the mid-nineties, which was a real drama power-house in its day. Ted Childs had hit after hit, and Russell created and worked on so many of these shows – Kavanagh QC, Cadfael, Sharpe. He had the Midas Touch, and Ted turned to him for everything. I was a very junior script editor, and I would see him in the corridor – ‘that’s Russell Lewis!’. There was always a stir when he came in because he was this powerhouse of ideas and everyone adored him. You could feel the energy pick up in the office. I watched him from afar, and read his scripts whenever I was able to. Nothing else reads like a Russell script – the hugely evocative stage directions, the hinterland he gives all his characters, the way he combines real erudition with great populist story instincts, and his genius for plotting. So I was a very starstruck fan. And I got to know him a little bit doing THE WAY THROUGH THE WOODS, which was a seminal experience for me, working with Russell and John Madden, the director. First impressions – that he was very bright eyed and bushy tailed, one of the cleverest people I had ever met, and also one of the kindest.

DAMIAN: And what were you like back then?

DAMIEN: Hmmm. Well, I had always wanted to be a script editor, and there I was, at Central Films, working on these big shows. I couldn’t believe my luck! And I was DULL. I took it all VERY seriously. Earnest.

DAMIAN: Funny, we met briefly before at New College during the location shooting of the opening dance number for CANTICLE but it was only later that I actually realised you had read history there at Oxford. I wonder what your career aspirations were during this period as a student and how did you find yourself becoming a script editor?

DAMIEN: Twenty-year-old Damien wanted to be a script editor – in the old days the Radio Times used to credit script editors in the listings, and I knew their names and followed their careers. I knew I couldn’t write, and I wanted to be a career script editor. I left Oxford at a time of terrible recession, couldn’t get any work, did various admin jobs, bar work, and eventually got a job on an Australian soap opera (another story). And then I got script reading work and eventually the job at Central Films.

DAMIAN: Is there still a certain amount of nostalgia regarding your association to both Oxford as a student, and professionally, the world that Colin created?

DAMIEN: Yes, for me. I went to New College, and there’s always a little frisson for me when we go back to film there. The opening of CANTICLE was filmed in one of the quads – drones, singing and dancing and umbrellas on the lawn – that made me happy. We were never allowed to walk on the lawn, so that was a transgressive thrill. Hollywell Street – which we film in a lot – was the centre of my life for three years, and I always get a little Proustian thrill when we film there.

DAMIAN: Specialising in producing original television drama for some of the major broadcasters including the BBC, ITV and Sky, Mammoth Screen was founded by Michele Buck and yourself in 2007. Was it difficult setting up your own production company and what was your initial vision for it?

DAMIEN: The vision was just to try and make shows we liked. I try not to overthink it and just see where our taste and luck takes one!

DAMIAN: Why the name Mammoth?

DAMIEN: Well, I was knitting a lot at the time, and I liked the fact that mammoths were woollen. And we also thought it was funny to call a fledgling production company after an extinct creature. Tongue was very much in cheek…

DAMIAN: In addition to Endeavour, Poldark, Victoria and the Agatha Christie adaptations for BBC One to name just a few – how the hell do you manage to juggle so many celebrated and esteemed productions?

DAMIEN: Well, I guess it goes back to Central Films, and enjoying working across a big slate of shows. You get used to a certain workload. I genuinely find that working across lots of shows gives me energy. And obviously it’s only possible to do lots of things because I have very clever colleagues and we all help each other!

DAMIAN: As a huge fan of The War of the Worlds and H. G. Wells in general, I can’t begin to tell you how much I’m looking forward to seeing your version, particularly as it’s the first period screen adaptation. What attracted you to this particular project?

DAMIEN: Going back to when I started in television I had always wanted to do a period adaptation of The War Of The Worlds, but there were rights issues. I’d been waiting twenty-five years!

DAMIAN: What do you believe are the essential ingredients for a successful TV drama or what do you look for in a script that lands on your desk?

DAMIEN: Obviously brilliant writing. But brilliant writing comes in so many forms. Every writer is different. I love some scripts that are wonderfully optimistic and full of joy, I love some scripts that are utterly harrowing and bleak. I think that’s true of audience too. I love writers who have a unique voice, and then obviously one tries to cast each show with the most memorable group of actors, and try to not be daunted by the budgetary limitations and achieve as much production value as is humanly possible.

DAMIAN: Would it be fair to say you have a propensity for period dramas and detective mysteries?

DAMIEN: I accept that it does seem to skew that way, but you can’t legislate for what is going to get commissioned from your development slate. Over the years we seem to do a lot of adaptations, but I think that is possibly part of a general trend. I do love history, and I love a period drama…

DAMIAN: Indeed, illuminated only by a solitary and flickering light, I like to imagine a long corridor beneath the offices of Mammoth Screen where you keep Russ typing away in one room with a set of Colin Dexter’s novels and Sarah Phelps in another with a library of Agatha Christie! Who might be found in the next cell?

DAMIEN: Well, we have optioned some interesting titles recently. But of course I can’t disclose what they are!

DAMIAN: Difficult, and also possibly unwise, to pick a favourite among your various productions over the years but given your aforementioned history with the character and the various artists who helped bring him to the screen, Endeavour must surely hold a very special place in your heart?

DAMIEN: Oh yes. Russell’s achievement is extraordinary. By the end of series six he has written fifty-four hours of television. That’s highly unusual! I think of Russell as a Savile Row tailor – he’s made twenty-seven bespoke suits! Clearly it starts with Colin Dexter, but Russell’s brain powers that show. Everyone who works on it has a special spring in their step because of Russell. I can’t think of another writer who has done this – he’s written every word of the show. David Renwick and Jonathan Creek comes close I think – but Russell has written more. Anthony Horowitz created Foyle’s War, but many other writers wrote on the show. It gives Endeavour a very unique identity. And it’s the seamless way in which Russell has developed Colin Dexter’s fictional universe with characters like Strange and Max, but also created the Thursday family, Bright, Jakes, Box etc. I worked on Lewis for many years and it was written by many writers – including some great writers – but the process was entirely different because there was no one author. It made it much much much less rewarding than Endeavour.

DAMIAN: I believe there were lengthy discussions between Russ, Michele Buck and yourself about the idea of an origin film to celebrate the 25th anniversary of Inspector Morse, but who actually came up with the concept – one of you must have been the first to mention it?

DAMIEN: It must have been about eleven or twelve years ago, I reckon? And I honestly can’t remember how it came up. I remember how Lewis came up; I was sitting having a cup of tea with Julie Gardner at LWT, and we were talking about detective series, and she said ‘we should develop something for Kevin Whately’, and I said ‘he’s already played an iconic detective. Hmmm. Surely we would never be allowed to give Lewis his own show?’. And after much wrangling Lewis was born. The idea of a Morse prequel story was just always there, I think. We spent a long time biding our time! Colin Dexter wrote a short story for the Daily Mail about the young Morse, and that gave us the courage to approach him. He took some persuading…

DAMIAN: Throughout my interviews with Russ over the years, he’s always maintained that the film that would eventually become First Bus to Woodstock was only ever intended as a one-off special to celebrate the anniversary and not a pilot as such. However, I find hard to believe that someone with as much business savvy as yourself never suspected that there was the potential for a long-running series?

DAMIEN: Our conscious minds were just making an anniversary film. Honestly. A similar thing happened with Lewis – we’d made a one off film which we persuaded ourselves was just a special one off. It seemed such hallowed ground, revisiting the world of Morse, and we honestly didn’t know if the audience would approve. They did engage with Lewis, but then we had Kevin Whately. The Lewis one-off was a success, and then we made a first series. Endeavour seemed like a much bigger gamble. The idea of a new actor stepping into John Thaw’s shoes seemed a massively high risk thing to do. So our conscious minds were telling us ‘do Colin Dexter proud, this is only a one off’.

DAMIAN: While looking back at the daily rushes of an evening, was there ever a particular scene that made you think First Bus would be a success with both critics and fans alike?

DAMIEN: That first two-hander between Endeavour and Thursday in the police office at night – those rushes were wonderful. The scene with Flora Montgomery where Endeavour almost kisses her – goose bumps.

DAMIAN: Why did First Bus work so well and what was the initial reaction from ITV pre and post-broadcast?

DAMIEN: It’s such a beautiful script. And Shaun and Roger are terrific in it. Colm [McCarthy, director] did such great work, Pat Campbell designed it so beautifully – it just all cohered. But Russell. That was the key to it. Russell honoured the original with such cleverness but he also gave the thing life. Young Endeavour just lived.

ITV were very keen on it, but no one knew if anyone would watch it. TV prequels rarely work. There might be an initial curiosity from viewers but this soon fades. What have we had over the years? An Only Fools and Horses prequel, a Dallas prequel, an Eastenders prequel, a show about the young James Herriot, First of the Summer Rain – none of them worked. And then the recent Prime Suspect show. So even though ITV liked the show I don’t think they necessarily thought it would be anything other than a footnote to Morse.

It went out on a Monday, I think – the 2nd January – and it was greenlit by the Friday. Peter Fincham – who was then in charge at ITV – took perhaps a day longer than we would have liked!

DAMIAN: Can you describe the moment when Russ was told that ITV wanted a full series?

DAMIEN: To be honest the ratings were so huge, and the response from the audience was so extraordinary that we just assumed there would be a series. We went into that first transmission thinking ‘we’ve made a tribute film to Morse, kind viewers please don’t be offended, we only mean well’. And then on transmission something unusual happened. People just LOVED it. I was staying in our cottage in the country and the TV broke about five minutes before it started. This seemed to be BAD OMEN. We have very bad phone reception, but I was able to get a signal by hanging out of a window. In my mind there was a gale, but I might have invented that. And I was expecting a very lukewarm response on twitter – because most things do get a lukewarm response – and there was this tsunami of twitter love for it. And for Shaun. And I think we just knew that Endeavour had legs. Russell and Dan McCulloch Producer] and I spoke a lot that night – you could just feel how much the audience loved it. Very rare feeling!

DAMIAN: One of the reasons that I believe Endeavour works so well and is so distinctive among other detective shows is the fact that Russ is the auteur and has an unrivalled talent for balancing the mystery-thriller aspects of the crime genre with ongoing narrative arcs populated with characters we care about and even love deeply. However, was there ever a concern from either ITV, or even yourself, that he’d be able to write every film?

DAMIEN: No! Generally speaking it’s very unusual for one person to write all of a detective series, but we took baby steps, and just hoped that Russell would want to write all of the first series, and then all of the second series. And it quickly became clear that the thing that really made the show work was Russell’s brain, and that the magic would stop if he wasn’t at the helm.

DAMIAN: Previously, both Russ and I wondered if 1969 would be a good year to end Endeavour’s adventures but you apparently believe that the show could still work just as well into the seventies?

DAMIEN: I think there’s something thrilling about leaving the 1960s. TV loves the 60s, doesn’t it? And it sometimes feels like the decade is hermetically sealed – ‘X show is about the 1960s’ etc. Endeavour is chronicling one man’s life, and I love the way we’ve seen Endeavour grow up as the 1960s unfold, and I think it’s thrilling to see how the 70s can challenge him – and Thursday too. The world continues beyond December 31st, 1969!

DAMIAN: Despite all the interviews in which I’ve tried to dissect a mind so full of obscure, unlikely, and possibly best forgotten cultural references, Russ is a mystery to me. However, it would seem he’s not the only one with strange fancies! – why does an Oxford-educated, executive producer and managing director of a hugely successful production company have such a fondness for a ramshackle and antiquated soap opera like Crossroads?

DAMIEN: Ha! Funnily enough I came across a youtube channel yesterday with lots of old episodes and I lost a very happy chunk of time watching some eps from 1975. As a kid I watched a lot of TV. Only child, busy parents – the TV really was my friend. I have affection for all TV of the 70s and 80s. Russell and I were both tickled by the notion that Kings Oak wasn’t so far from Oxford. The show isn’t the defining love of my life, honest! I have lots and lots of other guilty pleasures!

DAMIAN: And finally, as I’ve been curious about this for a number of years now, what exactly do you mean by the term ‘fragrant ladies’?

DAMIEN: Oh dear God, did Russell mention that? Well, Inspector Morse was riddled with fragrant ladies – right up to Judy Lowe’s character at the very end. It’s not just Colin Dexter’s world, good detective fiction with male protagonists – Sherlock Holmes, Philip Marlowe etc. – needs female characters to beguile and sometimes lead the hero astray. And Endeavour carries on this tradition, starting with Rosalind Stromming in FIRST BUS.

Because its set in the 1960s the worlds of the show can be quite male dominated – the world of academia, the rural and industrial spaces we sometimes visit – and I have occasionally been known to ask if we can have a ‘fragrant lady’ in a story, meaning ‘an ostensibly sympathetic female character who is connected to the crime and might even be responsible for the crime’. Russell has written many great female characters over the years, riffing on a particular kind of British woman of the era – a little bit Terence Rattigan heroine, a little bit Celia Johnson colliding with the counter culture of the 1960s. In one early story I politely enquired if there was room for a ‘fragrant lady’ after Russell had delivered a brilliant but very male dominated first draft. She became the killer and the phrase stuck!

DAMIAN: Damien, thank you very much indeed.

DAMIEN: Pleasure!

~~~

POSTSCRIPT: Damien contacted me after this interview was posted with the following information which is quite interesting:

‘The other thing that amused me about Crossroads and the world of Colin Dexter is this: it has been suggested that Crossroads was axed to release money to the central TV drama budget to allow Ted Childs to make more high quality drama shot on film – and the original series of Inspector Morse was one of the lucky recipients of this additional funding. So Crossroads had to die for Inspector Morse to live. The circle of TV life! So it seemed fun to tip our hat to it, and locate both shows in the same fictional universe!’.


THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2019: Paul Cripps

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Interview and original photography copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2019

All other images provided by Paul Cripps courtesy of Mammoth Screen

DAMIAN: You were the production designer on series five of Endeavour and asked back again this year. Given the fact that you got to design the new CID set, I wonder if series six was even more exciting and challenging to work on?

PAUL: Series six was just as challenging as Series five except that it was two films shorter! That made a huge difference in terms of crew fatigue (and my own).

DAMIAN: In terms of the look and feel of the CID set, I know Russ (Lewis, writer and deviser of Endeavour) wanted to evoke Alan J Pakula’s paranoia trilogy of Klute (1971), The Parallax View (1974) and All the President’s Men (1976) with a particular emphasis on the Washington Post newsroom in the latter and also the one featured in Zodiac (2007). Why do you think he referenced these and to what extent did they influence your designs?

PAUL: I pretty much came up with the same references as Russ when I heard the basic tenets of the first script apart from the The Offence. I think both Russ and myself were interested in the idea of seeding the series with alienation. The team have been split up, Endeavour is alienated from Joan, Thursday from Win, Bright from his former high position. We wanted to show the alienation associated through the brutalist architecture of the police station. Thursday has problems with this unfamiliar landscape and we also nod to the approaching world of modern policing and the move closer to the world of the first Morse series. I loved the office in Zodiac and that’s where the influence for the fake wood and metal office dividers came from.

Paul Cripps

DAMIAN: And wasn’t there also something about the light featured in The Offence (1972) that Russ wanted for the ceiling in the interview room?

PAUL: Yes I watched the The Offence a couple of times. It’s a very odd but great movie and the film was a really important reference for many things in the new station. There is a huge strange overhead light fitting in the main interview scene. It’s a little over the top and although I know Russ was keen to put similar in the station I tried to do this but keep with a slightly more believable light fitting. It think it works well but you’ll have to ask what Russ thinks.

Paul Cripps
Paul Cripps

DAMIAN: Obviously one of the most striking differences between the old CID set and your new one is the addition of the lift in the lobby area. Was this something that was required in the scripts or an idea of your own?

PAUL: I can’t remember if it was mentioned but I knew I wanted a lobby and lift to make it seem really modern compared to the old Cowley office. What we’ve done is create a lobby that can represent different  floors in a big police station. With a few additions of walls and doors the first floor lobby and CID becomes the basement lobby with the vending machines and the entrance to Endeavour’s store room office. The set was supposed to last for quite a few episodes as per the old Cowley set so I wanted to be able to create different floors by redressing if required. Redressed and repurposed Endeavour’s office also becomes the interview room so it’s a very versatile set.

Damian Michael Barcroft
Paul Cripps
Damian Michael Barcroft
Paul Cripps
Damian Michael Barcroft
Paul Cripps
Damian Michael Barcroft

DAMIAN: I’ve found standing in both the old and new CID sets that they are much smaller than they appear on screen. To what extent is this camera trickery or are certain walls able to removed to accommodate camera and lighting equipment if necessary?

PAUL: The set itself is a lot bigger than Cowley but it uses a number of tricks to create space and depth. The set is longer in one axis  and connects to the lobby using perspective and visual lines and then frames within frames to create depth for the camera. The wood effect office dividers are all glass with venetian blinds to create further frames within frames and to help blur background or foreground which again adds depth. The addition of a low ceiling with lights makes the space feel long like the  All The President’s Men Washington Post office. I did create camera traps behind the notice boards on the walls but I don’t believe they were actually used.

Paul Cripps
Paul Cripps
Paul Cripps

DAMIAN: Technically speaking, what do you think some of the advantages were to the new sets?

PAUL: Well I think the set provides more depth and a bit more playing/blocking areas for the directors and actors. One of the walls hinges away to allow quicker crew access. I think the main change is the aesthetic with the idea of concrete panelled walls, glass and fake wood panels, browns, brown leather; the 70’s are almost upon us.

Damian Michael Barcroft
Damian Michael Barcroft
Damian Michael Barcroft
Damian Michael Barcroft
Damian Michael Barcroft

DAMIAN: I visited the set during the shooting of PYLON and noticed from the call sheet that the art department/prop requirements for that day were as follows: Thursday’s pipe, Tobacco, Matches, Drinks, Shoulder bag, Photos of Emily, Stanley’s mugshot, Typewriter, Pony books, Drug paraphernalia, Heroin wrap with scripted heading, Snuff boxes and Photo of Baby Stanley & Mum. Is this about the usual amount and how far in advance of shooting do you have either locate, make or buy these?

PAUL: That is an average kind of day. The time we have to source it all is the day number versus when that version of the script arrives to us, so there is considerably less time for day 1 as opposed to day 24. There is a combination of buying, hiring an making all these things. If it’s a big deal and we’ve had it flagged up beforehand, we may get something made before the finalised script which can always be nerve wracking.

Damian Michael Barcroft
Damian Michael Barcroft
Damian Michael Barcroft

DAMIAN: The list also mentioned Thursday’s props, is it actually someone’s job to take items like his hat and pipe from Roger at the end of the day and store them away until the next?

PAUL: Yes we have two standby prop men and a standby art director on the standby crew every day. The prop men have a character box of props for each character. The standby team represent me on set and work with the director and DOP [Director of Photography] and other departments, sorting and placing props, redressing the set if required and fulfilling last minute requests or errors. They are vital to us. But come on Damian, Molly looks after the famous hat, not us. That’s costume!

Damian Michael Barcroft

DAMIAN: I can’t imagine how long the props list was for APOLLO but it must have been enormous fun to work on the Gerry Anderson-themed props and sets?

PAUL: Yes it was good fun. Most of the supermarionation props came from Stephen at Century 21 but we designed and built the puppet sets and he worked his magic with the puppets. I thought it worked pretty well with Stephen recreating the 35mm style of filming on his original camera, and as a reconstruction of Gerry Anderson’s studio. We had quite a bit of photo reference of his studio from that period. Sadly his original industrial studio building has gone now.

Paul Cripps
Paul Cripps
Paul Cripps

DAMIAN: Was this the most challenging film to design of series six?

PAUL: I think Film 4 was the most challenging to design as Russ kept his toughest scenario for us to create till that last film.

DAMIAN: I imagine the old building opposite the hangar where the main sets are housed has been dressed and undressed more times than Holly Golightly?

PAUL: Yes it’s appeared in a lot of shows and films in the last few years but we didn’t use it that much as it was used exterior wise in a couple of the earlier Endeavour films before my time.

DAMIAN: Lets say, purely for the sake of argument, that you were required to design a set that had appeared in the original Morse series, would you recreate it faithfully or put your own spin on it?

PAUL: We have actually started to do this as you’ll see in film 4. I think it should recreate the original as much as possible but that in itself allows you to put your own creativity into it. Although I have to say the Kidlington police station in Morse is not that inspiring if I ever had to recreate that. I think I prefer my Castle Gate!

DAMIAN: Finally, is there any visual evidence in the sets this year that Strange is still an Oxford United fan?

PAUL: Well I don’t think we saw it in Strange’s flat when he was looking at his Fancy murder board in Film 1 Pylon,  but he had a little reading matter next to his chair where he sips his whiskey. 1968/9 Oxford United programmes!!  

DAMIAN: Paul, thank you very much indeed.

PAUL: Mind how you go.

THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2019: Russell Lewis Part III

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EXT. OXFORD – DAY 1 (18.55)

The long late light of a cool summer’s evening. Oxford – a half-remembered dream. Drowned streets. Subtle and aquatint.

Young lovers kiss in doorways, heedless of the murmuring world…


MURDER ON THE DANCEFLOOR

An exclusive interview with Russell Lewis

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2019

INT. BALLROOM – DAY 1 (19.20)

Caught in the beam of a Follow Spot, A PAIR of FAMILIAR SILHOUETTES come onto the floor.

M.C.: Would you please welcome onto the floor, couple Number Seven, Frederick and Winifred Thursday.

The No. ‘07’ stretched across a familiar set of shoulders. FRED and WIN. The Astaire and Rogers of East Cowley.

A moment between them. It’s been a while. WIN gives him a nervous smile. THURSDAY shoots her an encouraging wink.

THURSDAY: Here’s looking at you.

Music begins. And they are away — gliding effortlessly across the floor. Bobbing and dipping. It’s a beautiful thing.

DAMIAN: And so it was. Russ, I’ve seen Roger a few times either on set or location and he’s never particularly struck me as the ballroom dancing type. Do you ever think it might be an idea to check if an actor is happy or comfortable learning to dance -or grow a mustache for that matter- before typing this stuff?

RUSS:  They tend to let you know pretty quickly if they’re not.

DAMIAN: What are you like on the dancefloor?

RUSS:  I would refer you to Mx.Ellis Bextor.  

DAMIAN: You write in COLOURS ‘It’s been a while’ but how long exactly and was dancing something that Mr and Mrs Thursday started back in London before the family moved to Oxford?

RUSS:  It’s something that fell by the wayside with bringing up the kids — but now, more or less alone again, it’s something to which they’ve returned.  An ‘interest.’

DAMIAN: Of all the quotes, in all the movies, why did you have Thursday say Bogie’s most famous line?

RUSS:  Even heroes have heroes.  I could see it being a film they liked.

DAMIAN: Well, what with the Thursdays dancing and Strange playing the trombone, it was quite a year for revelations and, potentially at least, we could have had another! A scene set in the hair salon in the first draft reads ‘Hazel comes to her appointments book — leafs through, and finds an appointment for MRS.BRIGHT…’. Might this suggest that you do actually have plans to introduce Reginald’s other half one day, but if not, can’t you at least tell us if she’s blonde or brunette?

RUSS:  Well… funny you should ask… We may meet her yet.

DAMIAN: We see the welcome return of Jack Bannon as Sam Thursday who says to Endeavour, ‘You’ve been around Dad too long. It’s rubbing off’, followed by a line of description that reads: ‘Something about SAM’s tone suggests this isn’t the compliment it might once have been – but rather a rebuke’. I wouldn’t say that Thursday has rubbed off on Endeavour in any negative way but let’s look at the following exchange which follows the possibility of Sam as a murder suspect and see if it helps put this issue into some sort of context:

STRANGE looks at ENDEAVOUR as if seeing him for the first time.

STRANGE: Christ, you’re some piece of work. Listen to yourself. What d’you think the old man’d say he heard you talking about his boy like that?

ENDEAVOUR: He’d say I was doing my job.

STRANGE: Your job.

ENDEAVOUR: Think the unthinkable. Follow the evidence. Without fear or favour.

STRANGE: Wherever it leads?

ENDEAVOUR: Wherever it leads.

STRANGE: I’m senior.

ENDEAVOUR: Yes.

STRANGE: So long as that’s straight.

ENDEAVOURS: Always.

STRANGE: You start off down that road, you’re on your own. Deal me out.

ENDEAVOUR: I already did.

DAMIAN: Unlike Thursday’s actions in the next episode with the battered wife and Strange turning a blind eye in this one where the old man’s kids are concerned (not charging Joan for example for her part in the protest), Endeavour is right to play things by the book isn’t he?

RUSS:  Caesar’s wife.  Even more important to play it by the book, when Sam is potentially involved.

DAMIAN: Since they left on good terms when Thursday saw Sam off at the bus station when he joined the army, is there anything in particular that has happened offscreen that would explain why there was tension between father and son?

RUSS: Distance lends perspective.  Sam’s older – a man, now. Some of those father/son scales have fallen from his eyes.

DAMIAN: Is it possible that Sam might, like his father before him, leave the army and join the police?

RUSS: Thursday & Thursday. It’s possible.

DAMIAN: Strange observes, ‘Just a girl? Might want to leave some for the rest of us. Claudine? That blondie one? Way you’ve been filling your dance-card lately, you think rationing was coming in.’ My thoughts exactly Jim, and this brings us to the subject of Endeavour’s Casanova phase again. However, let’s take a look at the following scene which is longer than the broadcast version:

INT. CLAUDINE’S BEDSIT – NIGHT 3 (23.59)

A deafening clap of thunder. Lit by streetlamp and lightning… ENDEAVOUR and CLAUDINE post-coital – lie in a tangle of bedclothes that has become a makeshift nest, teaspooned together — listening to the night rain. He’s smoking her cigarette. A moment — then:

ENDEAVOUR: Love and rain.

She retrieves her cigarette from his lips — and takes a drag.

CLAUDINE: How English.

ENDEAVOUR: I don’t think we can claim  it all for ourselves. People have been doing this for as long as there’s been people. Before even. Right back to… whatever we were –

CLAUDINE: Quel philosophe!

ENDEAVOUR: They probably lay on a branch, just like this. Looking out at thunderheads breaking over the Savannah. Rain coming down on the leaves. Safe in that one brief moment from the vast unknowable careless awfulness of it all.

CLAUDINE: If he was as gloomy as you, I hope she kicked him out of the tree.

ENDEAVOUR: Gloomy?

CLAUDINE: Yes! Oui! My God! Some men. So gloomy after.

ENDEAVOUR: Some men?

CLAUDINE: Of course — that’s the part you hear. (a moment) Seriously — why do you do that? Like someone died.

ENDEAVOUR: In my case – someone usually has. I don’t know. Intimations of mortality, I suppose. They say you’re never so alive as when you’re close to death. Maybe the reverse is also true.

CLAUDINE: Jesus. It’s just sex. (a moment) It’s not love.

ENDEAVOUR: I know.

CLAUDINE: It’s good to be clear.

ENDEAVOUR: I’m under no illusions. A day. A week. A month. I’ll take how ever long we’ve got. Just one morning you won’t be there. I suppose I’ll miss you when you’ve gone. That’s all.

CLAUDINE: We said. No regrets.

ENDEAVOUR: How French.

CLAUDINE: Enculé.

She reaches behind her head to mock rake his cheek with her nails. A long moment. Some ember of desire sparks into flame.

CLAUDINE (cont’d): Again?

ENDEAVOUR: God, yes.

Her mouth finds his. Still falls the rain.

DAMIAN: There was also another revealing scene with Joan and Strange which we won’t discuss because much of the content was included in series six and hopefully won’t be cut again. However, do you think the juxtaposition of these two scenes might have put to rest any qualms I’ve had regarding Endeavour smoking and his uncharacteristic libidinous behaviour?

RUSS: Uncharacteristic libidinous behaviour?  If ever a character – as evinced by Colin’s novels – had sex on his mind…

Endeavour – perish the thought – managing to squeeze in a one night stand with Charlie’s daughter, and something more substantial with Claudine, hardly makes him Casanova, does it? It grew out of a conversation with Andy [Wilson, director] when we were making CARTOUCHE. A remark he made about ‘68 definitely being a bit of lively year romantically. Generally – he meant – not specifically.

Don’t you think that it grounds the longing of the older Chief Inspector for romance – and I use the word in both its pure and euphemistic sense – in something real?  In his late 40s through to the end, what he’s missing is something he remembers, something he knew. Physical intimacy – as the boys in blue might put it.

The cigarettes…  You’re really overthinking this…  It’s her cigarette. Just strikes me as something Gallic.  C’est tout! When I was young, French cigarettes was about as cool as it got.  Jacques Brel – literally made of cigarettes. Can you imagine Rififi without smoking?  Ditto the mood of the scene. Ooh – as they say – la la!


Rififi (1955)

But, yes. Maybe. It’s a long time ago now, and I think there’s perhaps a bit of Endeavour trying to live la vie normale.  However, I suspect that it always feels for him – to some small degree – as if he’s wearing someone else’s clothes. You can track much of his state of mind back to CODA. And then HARVEST and later. So — all of these things feed into his emotional condition.

DAMIAN: And editing can sometimes create almost a different meaning or context from what was originally written can’t it?

RUSS:  You will not find me disagreeing with you on that point.

DAMIAN: Where are we on the idea that I proposed a while back regarding giving the fans a DVD release of a writer’s cut of episodes such as this one with all the deleted scenes restored?

RUSS:  Oh – I think that’s highly unlikely, now.  But you never know…

~~~

INTERVAL

~~~

Now entertain conjecture of a time When creeping murmur and the poring dark / Fills the wide vessel of the universe…

DAMIAN: QUARTET then, given that series five was loaded with allusions to contemporary politics  such as issues on immigration, was the inclusion of quotes from Henry V, arguably Shakespeare’s most patriotically British play, an audacious attempt to mock the establishment?

RUSS: No, not really.  It was mostly about selling the dummy of the medieval opening. And it’s one of the great ‘eve of battle’ scene setters.

DAMIAN: Certainly less subtle, of course, were the references to the Berserkers and the business with the pig’s head in MUSE, not to mention the following quote from this episode spoken by Millie Bagshot: ‘our friends on the continent are taking it seriously enough. Why else do you imagine De Gaulle is doing all he can to keep us out of the European Community? Buy British – Get Boris.’ Well, you’re certainly not pulling your punches where the other boys in blue are concerned are you?

RUSS:  Well, Oxford’s a long tradition of wankers in waistcoats – so such sentiments are pretty timeless.  What’s that great line from Belloq about John Vavassour de Quentin Jones who was given to throwing stones?  ‘Like many of the Upper Class, he liked the sound of Breaking Glass.’ In much the same way as John Bull is a sort of British, well, let’s be honest, English archetype, Boris was often used as a collective identifier for citizens of Redland.  That it also happened to be the name by which a former Secretary of State is best known to the public was just serendipity. I find all of this a great deal less funny than may appear. Damien Timmer [Executive producer and co-managing director of the production company, Mammoth Screen] said he thought ‘68 had the angriest tone of any of the series up to that point – and I suspect he may have been right.  Much then – and much now to be angry about.

DAMIAN: Is there ever any concern from either the production company or network regarding how political Endeavour should or shouldn’t get or it is regarded as no more than the sort of political satire one would expect from something like Have I Got News For You?

RUSS:  If there is a concern, it has not yet been confided to me.

DAMIAN: Wouldn’t the backdrop of racial tension in Oxford have been even more dramatic had Monica with the moped made an appearance as I can’t imagine Endeavour didn’t think of his ex girlfriend while all this was going on?

RUSS:  It might have been dramatically convenient, but we try to resist such urges.

DAMIAN: Although clearly reluctant to replace Fancy, wasn’t it still a bit unconvincing that Endeavour would take part in any It’s a Knockout tomfoolery?

RUSS:  You clearly think so.

DAMIAN: As with the lovely scene from NOCTURNE in which Max was touched by the death of a young school girl, he seems equally distraught in his attempts of saving Steven and it’s wonderful to see James given something else to play other than the typically sanguine and unflappable aspects (I also appreciated the fact that he later mentions his time at Bart’s). I think the character development for Bright, Strange and Joan has really done justice to the superb actors who play them in the last couple of series, and yes, I know it’s terribly difficult, but do think that along with Dorothea, Max now deserves a little more screen time in order to blossom?

RUSS:  Find me the screen time.

DAMIAN: Of course, scenes that do offer a glimpse into supporting characters’ personal lives and backstory are often the first to get cut. Let’s take a look at the following scene that sadly didn’t appear in the episode:

INT. AMBER LODGE/LOBBY – DAY 1 [12.03]

DOROTHEA waiting as THURSDAY enters with STRANGE.

DOROTHEA: Chief Inspector…

THURSDAY: Not right now, Miss Frazil.

DOROTHEA: Is this anything to do with the shooting at Christ Church Meadow?

THURSDAY: As I said – a statement will be made in the fullness.

THURSDAY and STRANGE start up the stairs — and we find:

CLAUDINE at the RECEPTION desk. She comes across to DOROTHEA…

CLAUDINE: Miss Frazil? Claudine Darc. I’m a photo-journalist.

DOROTHEA: Bad luck.

CLAUDINE: And a friend of Morse. Would you sign something for me?

CLAUDINE pulls out a well-thumbed book — ‘TRAVELS WITH MYSELF – THE WAR IN KOREA – BY DOROTHEA FRAZIL.’

DOROTHEA: Good heavens. Where did you find that?

CLAUDINE: A book-seller on the Seine by Pont-Neuf. It’s a classic. It means a lot to me. (as DOROTHEA SIGNS) What was it like? For a woman on the Front Line.

DOROTHEA: Are you squeamish?

CLAUDINE: No.

DOROTHEA: Then you’ll be alright. Why?

CLAUDINE: Why didn’t you do more?

DOROTHEA: Ask me when you come back.

DAMIAN: Was this scene scrapped in pre-production or actually filmed and then cut in the final edit?

RUSS:  Do you know, I honestly can’t recall.  I suspect it didn’t get shot.

DAMIAN: So presumably it was too traumatising but couldn’t Dorothea have written books on other subjects?

RUSS:  I don’t think trauma came into it.  And Dorothea’s ouvres may well extend into other areas which have not yet been written about.

DAMIAN: What was it then?

RUSS:  Fatigue.  Revulsion for the slaughter and suffering.  The absolute pointlessness of it all. Frazil is as tough as nails – but I think a sense of ‘Say they gave a war and nobody came.’ could have been part of it.  On the one hand journalists bear witness, on the other the notion that by sending back reports to be consumed along of the kippers and kedgeree that the reporter is somehow complicit and by some means enabling the suffering and carnage.  I’m not saying that’s right – but it’s how she may have felt.

DAMIAN: Endeavour asks, ‘No sandwich today?’, to which Thursday replies ‘Sunday? We’ll get a roast down the Lamb and Flag.’ After four years, wouldn’t he know that Thursday doesn’t have sandwiches either on a Saturday or Sunday, or has Endeavour bumped his noggin so many times on the headboard lately that he’s starting to lose his memory?

RUSS:  In the heat of the hunt, the days run one into another.

Monday, cheese and pickle…

DAMIAN: And what does Thursday have on his Wed… oh, nevermind. Taking into account the ‘love and rain’ scene, when Endeavour says to Claudine that ‘Sun’s going already. The year’s turned. Bonfires and hoar-frost. Mist’ll be up soon. The breath of winter’, is he not only accepting her imminent departure but also trying to tell her it’s OK or is it the case, as when she takes a photo of him, he remarks, ‘I wasn’t ready’?

RUSS:  “When you knew that it was over, you were suddenly aware that the autumn leaves were turning to the colour of her hair.”  The stages of grief. Denial. He’s aware that something is off – that she may be slipping away – but not how close it is to the end.  ‘I wasn’t ready’ is a genuine throwaway – to be freighted with meaning in hindsight. But no – for all his fine talk – when the moment finally comes, he wasn’t ready for her to go.

DAMIAN: Endeavour goes to the pub to drown his sorrows after Claudine leaves for Vietnam and then we cut to the scene in the script, which is slightly longer from the broadcast version and contains dialogue cut from a previous episode, where Joan asks him in for coffee. Had he gone in, would they have…

RUSS:  But he didn’t go in.  He’s not an absolute cad.  He’s enough emotional intelligence to know that to go to Joan on the rebound would be to use her – and that he would never do.

EXT. JOAN’S FLAT – NIGHT 4 (23.30)

ENDEAVOUR and JOAN come down the street to her front door. The walk has sobered ENDEAVOUR somewhat.

JOAN: How’s it going with you and Jim?

ENDEAVOUR: It’s not exactly the Yellow House. But it means we can both put something away. I should have enough for a deposit on somewhere by next year.

JOAN: A man of property.

ENDEAVOUR: I suppose.

JOAN: Didn’t Jane Austen have something to say about a single man in possession of a good fortune?

ENDEAVOUR: It’ll hardly be Netherfield Park. (the thought strikes him) Since when do you throw around Austen quotations?

JOAN: You didn’t need to walk me back, you know.

ENDEAVOUR: Old habits.

And here it is. Joan’s flat. No Fred to tap on the window. Nothing to stop them.

JOAN: Do you want to come in?

In the space between the question and the answer – stars are born and die.

ENDEAVOUR: Coffee?

Of course not ‘coffee’!

JOAN: Yeh.

And all he wants is there before him.

ENDEAVOUR: I don’t go much for coffee.

As the moment slips by…

ENDEAVOUR (cont’d): Besides…

JOAN: Besides?

Another moment, and he would be lost forever. What he wants to say is, I don’t trust myself.’ What he says is:-

ENDEAVOUR: Things to do.

JOAN: Okay. Goodnight, then.

She gives him a peck. ENDEAVOUR reacts.

JOAN (cont’d): What?

ENDEAVOUR leans in to her hair, to breathe her in…

JOAN: Morse…

ENDEAVOUR: Vespertine.

DAMIAN: Vespertine! There’s more references to James Bond and various other Cold War/Spy films and television than you could shake a loaded umbrella at but it would probably prove very dull if I kept asking if such and such is from so and so and you kept simply replying ‘yes’ so instead, can I just ask what some of the most potent screen images related to the genre were running through your head as you wrote QUARTET?

RUSS:  I think for a while the film was called ‘VESPERTINE’ – but it wasn’t particularly a nod to Miss Lynd.  Well — this was our out and out salute to the 60s spy genre, and we only get to do these things once… so the Len Deighton/Harry Palmer trilogy loomed large, as it always does.

Things like The Quiller Memorandum. A Dandy in Aspic. Of the Bonds – Goldfinger.  The pre-credit sequence and Auric’s factory. That’s what I was reaching for with Endeavour prowling around the perfume factory after dark. Alas. It was fun to take him up to that London. Albert Hall and the tube station.

DAMIAN: If we could end on quite a serious matter which relates to a lot of the themes of the episode, the terribly sad and shocking Salisbury poisoning happened only shortly after QUARTET was broadcast, now, would you have had to rewrite the script or postpone broadcast if the appalling event had occurred earlier?

RUSS:  It’s quite possible.  Dark days.

DAMIAN: Finally, what can you say about FILM 3, CONFECTION?

RUSS:  Hard and soft centres abound.  Um… ‘69 marked the final entry in Gordon Murray’s ‘Three Colours Primary’ Trilogy, and with The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society landing in Nov.’68 – this sort of felt like a chance to bring things together over the final summer of the 60s.  Village Green is v.nostalgic – a harkening back to some supposed halcyon age. ‘Preserving the old ways…’ Well — I’m not sure all the old ways are worthy or deserving of being preserved. Nostalgia’s a bit of a slow poison. Seductive and comforting, but lethal in its way. Like too much sugar.

THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2019: Caroline O’Neill

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Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2019

DAMIAN: Given all the stars who appeared there during the sixties such as The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Dusty Springfield, Jimmy Clitheroe, Sid James and Arthur Askey for example, Blackpool must have been an exciting place to grow up?

CAROLINE: Our house was FULL of Marvin Gaye, Dianna Ross and The Four Tops, soul music. I was lucky enough to see Dianna Ross at the Opera House in 1976 when I was 15, amazing! Blackpool was a fabulous place to be and I was lucky to see many artist as a teenager: The Sex Pistols, The Clash, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Kate Bush as well as Genesis and Led Zeppelin – the 70s were amazing and I was going to concerts all the time.

DAMIAN: Do you think this influenced your decision to work in show business?

CAROLINE: I don’t think so. I sort of ended up doing drama by default. I had been pretty lax at studying for my O Levels and my mum said I had to get some qualifications. So I went along to St Anne’s College and, among other subjects, I did Drama. Life changing. It was an incredible Drama Course and my head was turned. No looking back, that was what I wanted to do. Some fabulous actors have been through that course – David Thewlis and John Simm to name a couple.

DAMIAN: In addition to your work in theatre, you’ve had a prolific career in television appearing in Coronation Street, A Touch of Frost, Waking the Dead, EastEnders, Whitechapel, Happy Valley, Doc Martin and Last Tango in Halifax to name but a few. As you look back on all these productions, I wonder which you feel most proud of or have especially fond memories working on?

CAROLINE: I have to say Coronation Street, not so much for my work on it, but for the fact that growing up we watched it all the time, it was huge. The feeling of walking into the Granada building in Manchester, and being on such an iconic show was amazing. Doc Martin was a dream as everyone, particularly Martin, was a joy. Getting to play an addict, like Lynn Dewhurst in Happy Valley, is a really exciting challenge for any actor, and I loved getting my teeth into such an extreme character. The York Realist at the Royal Court Theatre, London, was maybe my proudest theatre moment. It was a hugely successful production and I made a life long friend in Anne Reid – who’s a huge Endeavour fan!

DAMIAN: I’m curious about your first appearance in the world of Colin Dexter with Lewis. Russell Lewis wrote some of the episodes including that all important first one, how do you think his vision of contemporary Oxford compares to the period Endeavour?

CAROLINE: Russell manages to recreate a whole new world in Endeavour through the tone and language of his scripts. He writes the period like no one else could. And it’s the harmonious relationship between the writing and the fantastic costume and set designs that bring 60s Oxford to life in the show.

And the Moonbeams Kiss the Sea

DAMIAN: Since the introduction of Win, Joan and Sam during the first series, to what extent do you think that the Thursdays were a surrogate for Endeavour in the absence of a loving family of his own?

CAROLINE: In the early seasons when everyone was at home, and we had all those lovely bustling breakfasts and dinners, Endeavour would arrive to pick up Fred… oh yes I do feel he had a little yearning for that. Win is such a warm and maternal character, I think she felt Endeavour needed looking after at times. She was also always aware that Fred had an almost paternal, protective relationship with Endeavour, and wanted to help nurture that.

I also think that from the first visit, Endeavour enjoyed coming round because there was that immediate chemistry between Joan and himself – I think Win picked up on that straight away.

DAMIAN: For the first few years at least, until Sam joined the army and Joan went AWOL, I suspect that, like Endeavour, Sunday-night viewers savoured the respite from grisly murders for just a few minutes to enjoy the comfort and cosiness of the Thursday family enjoying a meal round the table or sharing a box of chocolates while watching TV together on the sofa. Given the lovely chemistry between Roger, Sara, Jack and yourself, did you as an actor also feel a certain sense of loss?

CAROLINE: I always feel how lucky I am to be in this show and a part of the Thursday family, they’re all such lovely actors, and it did just work so well on set. I certainly miss having them around. Their leaving home also coincided with both my daughters leaving home, one off to University and the other to Boarding School, and you do grieve the change, the quiet… the sense of loss as your role as a parent changes, so playing Win became quite poignant. It would be fabulous to have all the Thursdays back for some celebration together before the final episode… Russell?

DAMIAN: And of course even you left, leaving poor old Fred alone at the end of last series because he loaned (and lost) a large portion of their retirement money to his brother, Charlie. I can understand that Win would have liked to have had a say in the matter but wouldn’t she have said no anyway?

CAROLINE: Truly, I believe Win would go with what Fred had wanted to do in the end. Though she does hold her own – she would have put up a fight and tried to talk him out of it, definitely! I imagine they might have negotiated how much to give him too. I think her disappointment in this awful situation was the secrecy and deceit – family means everything to Win – which is why I do think she would have ultimately wanted to help Charlie. But at the centre of the Thursday family is trust and honesty, both of which were tested in that situation.

DAMIAN: And was it selfish of Win to want Fred to give up coppering so they can compete dance competitions?

CAROLINE: Win has stood by Fred through twenty-seven years of coppering and I think she felt it was time to have something else in their lives. Not just for her, for both of them. It was something he enjoyed too. I think if things had turned out differently with Charlie, who knows…

DAMIAN: Given the fact that many of your scenes are set in the Thursday kitchen or dining room, was it something of a lovely surprise to read the script and see you would be ballroom dancing?

CAROLINE: My goodness yes! I don’t think Win had been out of the house for five films! -I may be slightly exaggerating there- but it was fabulous to have the opportunity to explore another side to their characters. And Roger is a wonderful dance partner. It was a really fun little project.

DAMIAN: What was Roger’s reaction and can you tell me a little bit about the two of you rehearsing the choreography?

CAROLINE: I think Roger was as surprised and delighted as I was! Particularly at the level of competition we had reached. It was great fun to film, but important it looked good – a bit of a challenge as neither of us had ballroom danced before! So we went off to a studio for a few hours and the marvellous, patient, Sally and friend, they were both brilliant in making us look good, took us through the routines and filmed them so we could practice in our kitchens

THURSDAY: (soaking in the view) God, I love this place. You should’ve seen their faces – Win and the kids – [when] I brought ‘em here for the first time. We’d been two-up, back to back in the Smoke. Outside lav. One cold tap. Mind – Win kept it spotless. Spotless. (a moment) ‘Is this Heaven, Dad?’ Joan. You know. Little face looking up. Those blue eyes. Couldn’t believe somewhere like this existed. Not after bomb-sites and soot. Was like we’d stepped out of black and white and into colour.

-SERIES 5, FILM 6: ICARUS

DAMIAN: I remember discussing the relationship between Endeavour and Joan a few years ago with Russ when I asked him at what point he decided that they’d fall for each other and he replied, ‘From the moment I had her open the door to him for the first time’. Not only beautiful, but it also shows what foresight and understanding he has for the characters. Did you ever discuss Fred and Win’s history with Russ prior to their move to Oxford?

CAROLINE: I think Russel has an extraordinary ability to write for individual characters, little idiosyncrasies and mannerism in their speech and behaviour carry so much story. And coming back to Win each series has always felt like putting on comfortable shoes. I think he had a clear idea of where he was taking Fred and Win and it was always exciting to see the journey. Moving to the house in Oxford is quite symbolic of what it means to be a Thursday family member really, they worked hard to achieve what they did and have that to show for it. It’s the simple things in life that matter most to Win – her family, her home.

THURSDAY: A policeman’s lot is not a happy one, I’m told. But the lot of a policeman’s wife hardly gets a mention. But while I’ve been out running around, nabbing villains and generally playing silly buggers… the real brains of the outfit has made a house a home, raised two children, our children. Seen ‘em off to school each morning, clean and smart. And somehow, even with all that to do, there’s always been a hot meal for me when I get home. Twenty-five years ago I got the best bit of luck any man ever had. The toast is… my Win.

-SERIES 2, FILM 4: SWAY

DAMIAN: One of my favourite storylines is from SWAY in which Thursday is reunited with his old war sweetheart, Luisa Armstrong. Do you think he would have continued to see her in secret had she not committed suicide?

CAROLINE: Mine too Damian, I loved working with Andy Wilson on that episode and the anniversary scene was so great. You’re aware that some scenes get cut from the final episode, and this is a case in point. Russell had written a wonderful scene where you saw Win’s strength and tenacity. Win actually spoke to Luisa and made it clear she was not going anywhere and neither was her and Fred’s relationship.

I don’t believe he would have continued to see her, Win is his one true love. We can all see the past through rose tinted glasses, and first loves will always hold a special place in one’s heart, but I don’t think he would risk losing Win.

THURSDAY: We were friends once.

LUISA: That’s the last thing we were. Friendship takes time. What did we have? Two months? Three? If that. There wasn’t room for friendship too.

THURSDAY: Don’t tell me. I was there. I remember everything. Everything. Every moment like nothing before or since. It’s here. Still. Forever. The scent of the pines. The sun on the water. So vivid. And you. All above everything, I remember you.

LUISA: Don’t.

THURSDAY: Your eyes.

LUISA: You can’t say these things. You can’t, not to me.

THURSDAY: I’ve no-one else to say them to.

DAMIAN: Do you think Fred betrayed Win with words such as these?

CAROLINE: The relationship Fred had with Luisa was something extremely special at a time when the whole world was being torn apart in the war. He obviously felt deeply for Luisa, and he reminisces here about it. But I think he truly loves Win and, free of the pressures of fleeting, war-torn romance, their love is completely different. Those memories are real, but so are the many memories he has with Win: having children buying a home, sharing the last piece of cake on a Sunday afternoon – that’s real Thursday love!  

DAMIAN: And in Luisa’s words, ‘Every life holds one great love. One name to hold onto at the end. One face to take into the dark’. No marriage is easy, but despite their ups and downs, it’ll still be Win’s face that Fred takes into the dark with him won’t it?

CAROLINE: Oh yes, they’re soul mates and have gone through thick and thin together.

DAMIAN: One last question because Russ won’t tell me, so I’m hoping you can finally reveal what Fred has on his Wednesday sandwich?

CAROLINE: I will keep you guessing…

DAMIAN: Caroline, thank you very much indeed.

CAROLINE: Thanks so much Damian!