Tag Archives: Endeavour Series 6 Interviews

THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2020: RUSSELL LEWIS PART III

An exclusive Endeavour interview with writer/deviser/executive producer Russell Lewis

EXT. CHIGTON GREEN/POST OFFICE/ROAD – DAY 1

The CHIGTON GREEN CLOCK – telling the time. Never too quickly. Never too slowly. Telling the time for Chigton…

A SIGN for: “CHIGTON GREEN” Here the green. There the duckpond. Shops. Butcher, baker, candlestick maker. Fishmongers. Post Office.

Well-tended houses and gardens. Garden gnome – fishing…

CONFECTION (S6:E3)

*Trumptonshire: Camberwick Green, Chigley* and *Trumpton*

DAMIAN: This opening to CONFECTION was filmed with idyllic shots of the quaint village including a white picket fence adorned with red roses and the overture ends with Farmer Bell shooting Mandy-Jane with a shotgun. I wasn’t quite sure if I was watching Endeavour, an episode of Trumpton or David Lynch’s Blue Velvet. What mood were you and the director going for with this?

RUSS: Um… I think the picket fence was Leanne’s choice, as were the red roses. The Lynch probably more in her mind than mine – but I loved what she did with it. My only regret is that we ended up with the Roy Orbison and not her first choice. I love Roy Orbison — but the other track she ran with almost through to lock was a bit more kitsch and camp and torchy. A vocalist in the Kay Starr tradition… ‘Accused of stealing kisses, I’m guilty of the charge…’

DAMIAN: Preceding the scene where Endeavour meets Isla Fairford for the first time, you write that he ‘takes a moment – soaks up the atmosphere’ of the village which represents ‘a world and a life he left behind’. Not only is Isla obviously very attractive, but to what extent is Endeavour also attracted to the “notion” or “idea” of her and, rather ironically of course, the innocence she might represent in his longing for simpler times or the fact that he ‘grew up somewhere just like this’?

RUSS: What we were reaching for was a dull ache in his heart for somewhere – and more specifically – “someone” to call his own.

DAMIAN: Regarding the character of Isla, your script references Middlesex, a poem by Betjeman, with the following quotes: ‘Fair Elaine, the bobby-soxer, fresh complexioned with Innoxa… well-cut Windsmoor… Jacqmar scarf of mauve and green’. What was it about this poem that resonated with the character of Isla?

RUSS: Well — we were smashing together Christie, Trumptonshire, and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang in our creative Hadron Collider… and, you remember those wonderful illustrations across the opening of the Hickson Miss Marple?

The characters feel very late 40s through 50s. Actually – a touch of Long Weekend in there also. Mayhem Parva preserved in aspic. But there’s something sly about the eyes of all of them. And the Betjeman seemed to chime very happily as a short-hand for the kind of young woman she presents to the world. I think also – there’s a tiny echo of Barbara Shelley in Village of the Damned. Maybe a bit of Truly Scrumptious too. We were playing around a little with a Christie classic.

DAMIAN: In the Endeavour and Isla duck pond scene you write a line of action in the script that reads ‘One lonely heart lurches towards another.’ Obviously deceiving the audience is part of the game in murder mysteries but in reference to the cast and crew, do your scripts always tell the “truth” about a character or is there an equal objective to surprise those at the readthrough as well?

RUSS: Not the readthrough so much, as anyone’s first reading. By the time we get to that – most people are familiar with it. You want to convey in the stage directions the same experience the viewer will have when they see it for the first time. Physically and emotionally.

DAMIAN: The scenes ends with Endeavour asking Isla out on a date: ‘Look, I’m not really in the habit of, uh… – I just wondered if – perhaps – you’d care to go for a drink somewhere later… (a moment) With me.’ Is this supposed to be ironic considering Endeavour is exactly in the habit of falling for and attempting to romance wrong’uns?

RUSS: I think it reflects where he is at that point in his head. He’s not firing on all cylinders. He’s wounded emotionally. And a part of him has a fantasy of turning his back on the fight. Isla and her little boy are like a ready made, off the shelf family. He’s a weakness for those he perceives as vulnerable – so, of course, he’s drawn to her. Having failed to save his mother, he is compelled to try to save everyone else. As if in doing so, he might bring her back. It’s a nonsense – and childlike magic thinking, and I’m sure it’s all subconscious. But there’s a truth to the psychology of it.

ENDEAVOUR: I met someone. She’s got a kid. A boy. Five years old. It could be – I don’t know – something. (off STRANGE) Why not? Everybody else gets a shot – why should I be any different?

STRANGE: Because you are.

ENDEAVOUR: What if I don’t want to be? Isn’t that what it’s supposed to be about? Something to come home to.

STRANGE: I wouldn’t know. Some day. Maybe.

DAMIAN: Isn’t it about time for a strange bedfellow?

RUSS: Ho ho. Well — we’ve seen him on a date, haven’t we? I think he gets by. But there’s nobody special at the moment.

INT. THURSDAY’S OFFICE/POLICE STATION – DAY 4

ENDEAVOUR with THURSDAY…

THURSDAY: What’s this you were with Shepherd’s daughter at the pub?

ENDEAVOUR: It was just a drink.

THURSDAY: She’s a suspect. Christ, what’s the matter with you? Bat their lashes and you’re just…

ENDEAVOUR: I’ve got a life.

THURSDAY: Not on duty, you haven’t.

ENDEAVOUR: I wasn’t on duty.

THURSDAY: It shouldn’t matter. A copper’s a copper – first, last and always.

ENDEAVOUR: And where’s that got you?

THURSDAY – a kicked dog. Torn between shame and the urge to lash out. ENDEAVOUR instantly regrets the shot.

DAMIAN: Thursday lost all the money he lent to his brother, Charlie, there’s the marriage breakdown, the death of Fancy and then, of course, there was also the demotion. Was it the misadventures in his home or work life that was the final straw?

RUSS: I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at? In Thursday crossing the line? Oh – I think all of those things. He’s in a mess.

INT. PUB 2 – NIGHT 3

BOX: After the way they’ve treated you? I wouldn’t treat a dog like that. Christ, you must’ve noticed a change in your pay-packet? And you’ve still got a wife and kids to feed. (off THURSDAY) What’s next? They put you out to grass on some nothing job like old Reg? A man’s got his dignity, Fred – or he’s got nothing. Doesn’t make you a bad copper. Just makes you a smart one. Go on. Take the missus out this weekend. Treat her.

THURSDAY breaks. He reaches out – takes the envelope, and puts it into his pocket. BOX relieved.

BOX (CONT’D): Blimey. A minute there, you had me giving it two-bob, thrupenny bit.

THURSDAY: You and me both.

BOX: To be fair. I was no different the first time. Second time, you barely feel it. After that, it’s all gravy. Go on, then. Get ‘em in.

THURSDAY – his soul forfeit.

DAMIAN: As you are very well aware, fans have wondered about Mrs. Bright for years now. Years! So, wasn’t it a little cruel to the devoted curious that we finally meet her when she’s dying of cancer?

RUSS: Mmm. Rules of drama, old man. Come in as late as possible, get out as soon as you can. It’s always been a case of how much screentime we have available.

INT. DINING ROOM/BRIGHT’S HOUSE – NIGHT 1

MRS. BRIGHT, (54), a great Society beauty, and the Deb of the Year in 1934, sits at the table – distracted. BRIGHT enters – bearing something lovely for her supper – which he sets before her.

BRIGHT: You are good to me, “Puli”.

DAMIAN: Why does she call him Puli?

RUSS: From their time in India. It means Tiger. For obvious reasons.

DAMIAN: Indeed. The scene in the film ends with ‘Oh ‘Puli’. I don’t think I’ve been a very good wife.’ and with a beautifully reassuring smile, Bright replies ‘No man ever had a better.’ In the script he has an extra line, ‘Is there… something you want to tell me?’ Either way however, and I thought he actually knew she was seriously ill before this, did you consider it more dramatic for the audience to learn about it from his conversation with Max rather than his wife?

RUSS: No – this was the moment she told him. I’d imagine the cut was more to do with timing. I think the question from Bright was possibly a case of crossed wires. Given their history, when she says ‘I don’t think I’ve been a very good wife,’ his immediate lurch would be the thought that she has committed some indiscretion, not that she’s about to tell him her number is up.

INT. MAX’S CLUB – DAY

MAX waiting. BRIGHT makes his way through the crowd. MAX stands to greet him.

MAX: Chief Superintendent.

BRIGHT: Doctor. It’s very good of you to meet me.

MAX: Not at all. What may I get for you?

BRIGHT: Oh – er… A brandy, I think.

MAX attracts the attention of a passing waiter.

MAX: Albert. A brandy, if you would.

WAITER heads off.

MAX: (CONT’D) They do quite a decent spot of supper.

BRIGHT: Excellent. Excellent. I’m sure.

MAX: Now – how may I be of service?

BRIGHT: I may rely on your discretion. As a medical man.

MAX: Always. Please. Speak freely.

BRIGHT: My wife has been diagnosed with cancer of the lungs. Inoperable, according to the specialist. She’s scolded me for an optimistic fool, but I wonder if you might recommend anyone from whom one could seek… a second opinion.

MAX: Well, there’s no better man in England than Sir Julian Fitzalan. I know him slightly and would be happy… (off BRIGHT’S reaction) Chief Superintendent?

BRIGHT: Julian is my wife’s specialist…

DAMIAN: I thought this scene was perfectly written, shot and performed – certainly one of my favourites from series 6. The scene heading in the script simply states ‘Max’s Club’ and I was wondering where and what this might be?

RUSS: Well — thank you. There’s a few Gentlemen’s Clubs in Oxford – but I think we were sort of leaning towards Frewen’s as a model – which is St.Aldate’s. Yeh — it was lovely to be able to have Anton and Jimmy share a two hander. And, of course, they both played it to perfection. There was a fair bit of weeping from certain hard-bitten crew members when the scene was shot, so that was a good sign.

DAMIAN: I’m presuming from the dialogue that this is the first time that the two have met outside of work -excluding funerals and suchlike- and we know from the scene in the garden at Max’s home that he and Endeavour don’t socialise either. Has Max not got anyone?

RUSS: Max’s private life is for the moment a closed book. It would be lovely to put some flesh on the bones. We saw a little more of Max in this run — his home, his club.

DAMIAN: Endeavour lost his father, Cyril, in HOME (S1:E4) but they had a troubled relationship and unlike two little boys I know extremely well, he wasn’t fortunate in having a special bond with his grandfather. However, he did have Thursday and that family unit of Fred, Win, Joan and Sam represented the happy home that Endeavour never had. Throughout series 6 Endeavour is ‘sickened’ by an ‘unrecognisable’ Thursday, never more so when he sees him drinking and smoking (a cigarette!) at the Indian restaurant with the Droogs. Endeavour suppresses the evidence in the suitcase that would have implicated Thursday in the conviction and hanging of the wrong man in the Clemence case at the beginning of series 6 – would he have done the same by the end of film 3 or the beginning of 4?

RUSS: Yes – I don’t think their friendship is thrown away as quickly or easily as that. Thursday in his way is punishing himself for Fancy. He hates himself because he blames himself for Fancy’s death – every bit as much as Endeavour blames himself — and I think the temptation with Box has to be viewed through that lens. It’s an act of self-harm. Almost as if he wants to be caught and punished for something. Anything that will bring an end to his torment.

The cigarette… He’s also feeling like yesterday’s man, and – I think you asked me in an earlier Q&A about why he puts away his pipe after glancing through to Box and Jago. Well — they’re the coming men – younger, The Sweeney in waiting… and they’re all on the tabs. Thursday suddenly feels his pipe is perhaps old fashioned. If he’s going to run with this mob, he’d better start fitting in. But I don’t think Endeavour gives up on him – or ever would entirely. There’s too much between them.

Endeavour is hurt and confused by Thursday’s uncharacteristic behaviour. Rog was adamant that he didn’t want Thursday’s crossing of the line to be a ruse or a wheeze – a wink to the audience – in order to get the bad guys – which is probably the line I would have erred towards. But it was just as important to me that he came to his senses of his own will.

ENDEAVOUR: I’m sorry about the Disciplinary. You deserved better.

THURSDAY: I don’t know about that. Anyone should answer for what happened to George Fancy, it’s me. I was in charge.

ENDEAVOUR doesn’t know where to go with this THURSDAY.

ENDEAVOUR: Well – good luck with it, anyway. (a final throw of the dice) If you – fancy a drink some time..?

THURSDAY: Yeh. Yes, we, uh – we must do that.

Offered with all the conviction of one who has no intention of doing any such thing. Worse – they both know it.

PYLON (S6:E1)

DAMIAN: Why couldn’t Thursday reach out to Endeavour?

RUSS: It was important to illustrate that the relationship had changed. That they were no longer the happy few, the band of brothers from Cowley. And that was true with all the relationships. Bright – sidelined. Strange – making his way up the greasy pole. Endeavour and Thursday estranged. It was important that the audience shared in their pain.

ENDEAVOUR: My report. Syringe is in the bag.

THURSDAY: I’ll see the Guv’nor gets it.

ENDEAVOUR: Anything?

THURSDAY: Early days. You know how it is.

Seeing ENDEAVOUR in CID is more ‘yesterday’ than THURSDAY can bear.

PYLON

DAMIAN: ‘Yesterday’, hardly a coincidence given your frequent Beatles references and the aptness of some of the lyrics…

Yesterday,

All my troubles seemed so far away,

Now it looks as though they’re here to stay

Oh I believe in yesterday

Suddenly,

I’m not half the man I used to be

There’s a shadow hanging over me

Oh yesterday came suddenly

…but why did you want ‘Mad About the Boy’ playing at Thursday’s home?

RUSS: It just helped edge Thursday into the idea that perhaps he was losing Win too. If she was going off to ballroom with another man, and playing Mad About the Boy on the radiogram… It all played into his lost equilibrium.

DAMIAN: You described Endeavour as the little wooden boy (in reference to Max acting as his conscience in the garden scene from APOLLO) in one of our previous interviews and after Isla is arrested in CONFECTION, you write that Endeavour ‘casts a look back at the house. Shepherd and Henry [Isla’s five-year-old son] in the window. Another unhappy little boy.’ Do you sometimes think of Endeavour as a little boy?

RUSS: Not particularly — but it’s a large part of what made him, isn’t it? There was a much bigger spat between Isla and Endeavour at the car — a literal spat, insofar as I think Endeavour got a faceful of saliva – along with some very damning words from her.

But Henry — felt very much like an echo of his own history.

DAMIAN: You’re very perceptive but circumspect regarding melancholy childhoods aren’t you?

RUSS: ‘I am not I; thou art not he or she; they are not they’ There’s a fair bit of mud to dredge. Long closed rooms and deserted galleries on the upper floors. But no more than anyone else, I’m sure. It would be a mistake to draw any particular conclusions from it.

DAMIAN: All of the previous film titles of series 6 were self explanatory but why DEGÜELLO?

RUSS: You know my fondness for Westerns. At one point – the night before the gunfight – which I’d intended to be a much larger set piece – at the Four Winds quarry – I had Thursday singing along with Dean Martin on the turntable – ‘My Rifle, My Pony and Me.’ from Rio Bravo.

It was a much bigger build up for all of them. Long dark night of the soul stuff. But ‘Degüello’ as you know was a bugle call ordered by Santa Ana at the Siege of the Alamo. I believe the more or less literal translation is ‘cut throat’, but it’s a signal that ‘No quarter’ is to be given. That the fight will be to the death, and that no prisoners will be taken.

EXT. CRANMER HOUSE ENTRANCE – DAY 2

SANDRA emerges into a world of swirling grey dust.

She gasps what seems to be her last breath – and collapses out of frame…

…into ENDEAVOUR’S arms.

ENDEAVOUR looks up the tower. Shocked. Traumatised.

DEGUELLO (S6:E4)

DAMIAN: Although Newham is mentioned, I couldn’t help but think of the Grenfell Tower tragedy during the Cranmer House disaster, especially with the casting of the mum and her young daughter. Indeed, your script specifically states they are ‘Afro-Caribbean’, was this on your mind too?

RUSS: I was working very late the night Grenfell happened and had the TV on for company. I remember seeing the first phone camera footage coming in, and it was clear straight away that it was an utter catastrophe which would result in terrible loss of life. We’ve all seen fires – but I don’t think any of us had ever seen anything to compare with that. Not here. The only thing that springs to mind is the R101 Disaster. Something that was instantly beyond human agency to contain. Watching it, one couldn’t comprehend that there could be such a conflagration without some sort of accelerant. And, of course, we know now that it was the cladding – without which it would never have gone up the way it did, or spread so rapidly or so fiercely. That this was happening in the heart of the capital…

So… But that wasn’t the inspiration, although, obviously, it certainly coloured one’s approach. We’d considered developing a story that drew on Ronan Point the previous year, but then Grenfell happened and it wouldn’t have been at all appropriate. But I think the level of civil indifference and arse-covering by all responsible parties – which is still being covered – concerned with Grenfell fed into our story. Essentially, people died because money was deemed to be more important than their lives. They died because they were less well off than their neighbours. Because they were held to be of small account. One has to be careful what one says and writes about it because the Inquiry is ongoing and criminal charges may follow. But, to borrow a lawyerly phrase, if ‘one takes oneself out of this case’ and talks in more general terms… It does feel as if one has been hearing the phrase ‘lessons must be learned’ for the majority of one’s adult life. Meaningless hand-wringing and lip-service contrition. It’s interesting to compare the wholly unbelievable pack of lies some professional villain will offer from the dock with the elegant and expensive sophistry of corporations and government at national and local level. The latter groups would likely not consider themselves as in any way comparable to the former — but in the end if comes to down to this. They are both lying to avoid responsibility and consequence.

In part, when people like those in Grenfell die, they do so because successive governments – with the connivance of a sympathetic press – have sold the lie that we can have a functioning and safe society without having to pay for it. It’s forty years we’ve been chasing this illusion. The asset stripping of the UK plc. Of course — some people have done very nicely out of it. But they’ve always done very nicely, thank you very much. I think we had Thursday nod to it years ago. ‘It’s the same the whole world over, it’s the poor what gets the blame, it’s the rich what gets the pleasure, ain’t it all a blooming shame.’

DAMIAN: Indeed. Let us move on. Marvellously nefarious performance but I thought the character of Jago was terribly underwritten. I obviously understand why now but would it have been possible to develop him further so we knew a little bit more about him without giving the game away?

RUSS: Anything is possible, and we could have gone further in drawing him out, but I think we quite liked all the attention being on Box, with Jago appearing as not much more than his side-kick, only to invert that power dynamic at the last.

DAMIAN: Tell me about your original idea to include a flashback to the snooker hall with both Fancy and Jago and why it wasn’t filmed?

RUSS: I thought it might have helped the audience – but it wasn’t practical for a number of reasons.

DAMIAN: ‘Surprise, you couldn’t see me for Box’. Was Jago’s line improvised because it isn’t in the script?

RUSS: I would imagine that to be the case. I’d intended a much bigger shoot out – but the best laid plans, etc.

Four guns speak almost as one. BOX shoots JAGO. JAGO shoots BOX. ENDEAVOUR and THURSDAY shoot JAGO. BOX and JAGO go down – JAGO mortally wounded. ENDEAVOUR kicks JAGO’s gun away, and watches the light die in his eyes – while THURSDAY sees to BOX.

BOX: I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t leave you to it.

THURSDAY: I know.

BOX: Who’d’ve thought…

DAMIAN: In contrast to what was scripted, isn’t the scene as shot and edited rather more ambiguous?

RUSS: Is it? I’ll take your word for it.

DAMIAN: And, despite what both you and Simon Harrison told me in our interviews last year, he did redeem himself after all?

RUSS: We lied.

DAMIAN: Was this always part of his journey as planned from the beginning?

RUSS: There’s a certain amount of development as you watch some relationships and performances across the early films in a run.

DAMIAN: Why was series 6 the right moment to introduce the house we know from Inspector Morse?

RUSS: Well — the whole series he’s been looking for somewhere to call his own, after all the various flats and dossing in the office. But we also know he’s not exactly loaded — so somewhere that had been a squat with an unhappy history… there goes the neighbourhood. It felt organic that he might have come into his long term home by such means. He is forever surrounded by ghosts.

INT. LIVING ROOM/SQUAT – DAY 2

DULCE DOMUM sprayed on the wall… STRANGE’S attention lands on the graffito.

STRANGE: (mispronouching it, natch) Dulce domum.

ENDEAVOUR: Sweet home.

STRANGE casts an eye over the wretched state of the place.

STRANGE: No place like it.

DEGÜELLO

DAMIAN: What was the idea behind the Jag on the scrapheap which was then restored to its former glory by the end?

RUSS: It reflected where Endeavour and Thursday were at the start of the run — and, again, it felt right that the black Jag be restored to Endeavour by the end. Something put out for scrap – dismissed and disregarded by all for the next bang up to date thing — that felt very much like Endeavour. And like the house – it’s a hand me down. Something wonky in some way. But his affection for the Jaguar… looks set to be lifelong.

DAMIAN: ‘I hope this will become clear in the watching’ you told me when I asked about the moustache last year. Did it become as clear as you would have liked or would you have preferred the following not to have been cut:

ENDEAVOUR: You. I thought I knew who you were – but this past year, I barely recognise you.

THURSDAY: Nice tache. (which brings ENDEAVOUR up short) You’ve never been one to follow fashion. So, what’s that all about?

ENDEAVOUR: Seemed like a good idea at the time. I don’t know. Maybe it’s like Nicholson. Living with something you can’t put right.

THURSDAY: George, you mean?

ENDEAVOUR: I couldn’t stand to wake up every day and look at the man in the shaving mirror. The face that’d… let him down. I thought… if it was someone else staring back, I could forget it. If it didn’t happen to that face – I could fool myself it never happened at all.

THURSDAY: Perhaps we’ve all been hiding one way or another. From ourselves. From each other. From George. You’ve always given me too much credit. I’m not what you think.

ENDEAVOUR: Yes – you are.

THURSDAY: Nah. I’m just an old flatfoot with too many miles on the clock.

ENDEAVOUR: What’s going on? This isn’t work. This is something else.

THURSDAY: I took a wrong turn, and it cost me. But I can see a chance now to set things straight.

DEGÜELLO

RUSS: Mmm. Again – I think this was a request. The boys – Shaun and Rog – asked for something which explained it. So, I wrote this exchange for them. Which, when they read it, they thought was too self aware. Sometimes – less is more.

DAMIAN: Endeavour tried to forget the death of Fancy and Thursday took a wrong turn. In contrast, both Bright and Strange refused to be bribed and the latter never gave up on trying to get justice for Fancy. To what extent were Bright and Strange the real heroes of series 6?

RUSS: I think it was about the quartet – getting the band back together, overall. But, yes. It was lovely to strike those notes with Bright and Strange. And they were both hugely important. I don’t think one should imagine that Endeavour or Thursday had given up. Endeavour wouldn’t let it rest, either. They were both… winded, I think is the best way to look at it. What happened to Fancy hurt them both deeply — and knocked them back. They each have their strengths and weaknesses – but that’s what friends are for, isn’t it? When you stumble, they make sure you don’t fall. The reaction to it all was quite extraordinary though. People were getting quite cross that one had made them suffer for so long. But that had to be. If we’d just shrugged off Fancy’s death by the end of the first reel – it would have been pretty unsatisfying. By the time we got to the end, hopefully the audience had been on a credible emotional journey with them all.

DAMIAN: I’ve asked some of the cast this same question but I wonder what your take will be: albeit only temporarily, do you think the moral downfall of Thursday suggests that all bets are now off and anything is possible for the future of the show and its characters in terms of what the audience thinks they are ethically capable of?

RUSS: Yes, perhaps.

DAMIAN: What can you say about the last film of series 7, ZENANA?

RUSS: Er… There’s an advisory referendum… Lady Matilda’s college is exploring the notion of going co-ed. That’s the jumping off point. The good end happily and the bad unhappily. Or something like that.

DAMIAN: Will series 8 be the last adventure?

RUSS: Nothing is written.

DAMIAN: I don’t know if you can remember much about our very first interview back in 2014 but I said it surely can’t be a coincidence that so much of your work features the police and detectives and you replied that ‘it’s mostly coincidence.’ Well, I was delighted to hear that you’ve scripted a new TV series and I was wondering what it was about?

RUSS: A very old friend from school – Andrew O’Connor – who amongst his manifold achievements has been responsible for Peep Show, and in the theatre is intimately involved in the Derren Brown shows – got in touch. He asked me if I’d be interested in adapting the tremendously successful Roy Grace novels by Peter James for television. They’re a very different kettle of fish to my Oxford adventures — leaning more towards thriller / procedural territory. And they’re very much Peter’s stories. But they have a distinctive identity – set in Brighton. Grace is an interesting modern copper. They’re contemporary – which is something I haven’t done for a while. John Simm is playing Grace. So… Watch this space. More anon, no doubt.

DAMIAN: Russ, thank you very much indeed… oh, there was just one more thing. I know you’re familiar with the Cake Paradox but let me ask you about the Sandwich Dilemma. You’re having lunch at the Thursday house and Win has made a variety of sandwiches to show off her Monday to Friday range. However, you and a friend arrive a little late and there are only two sandwiches left: the cheese and pickle or the sandwich she makes for Fred on a Wednesday. Now, you’d really like to have the cheese and pickle but that would only leave the Wednesday Special for your friend and he or she might reveal the much discussed filling to the world! Which do you choose?

RUSS: The Wednesday Special, of course.

DAMIAN: See you down the road?

RUSS: Until then.

We leave Russ there with his Wednesday Special, the weight of the world on his shoulders and the fate of Oxford’s finest in his hands. And what lovely hands they are too. ROLL END CREDITS.

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THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2020: STEPHEN LA RIVIERE

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An exclusive Endeavour interview with writer, producer, director, puppet operator and editor Stephen La Rivière

INT. MOONBASE

Consoles with winking lights. The HERO of MOON RANGERS – square jawed MAJOR.ROCK RENTON with X1 the ANDROID and COLONEL CRATER, crusty old patriarch.

MAJOR RENTON: If only we could access Damian Michael Barcroft’s website from outer space. I wanted to read his interview with Stephen La Rivière about the making of the ‘Moon Rangers’ sequences for ‘Endeavour’.

Some electronic beeps — X1’s ‘VOICE’.

COLONEL CRATER: What did that box of wires and lights say?

MAJOR RENTON: X1 says if we can beam our signal off the asteroid, we might be able to find Barcroft’s Uniform Resource Locator.

COLONEL CRATER: His URL? Great Scott! It’s a billion to one-shot, but it might just work!

(Not quite as originally written – apologies to Russell Lewis)

CUT TO:

DAMIAN: Okay Steve – right, let’s go! Stephen, you’re a producer, director, writer, actor and, of course, a puppeteer best known for your work relating to Gerry and Sylvia Anderson’s Supermarionation style of filmmaking. However, you were born in the eighties so must have missed most of their really iconic shows?

STEPHEN: If we’re talking original transmission, then I missed all of them. However, there was a HUGE revival in the early 90s – and, indeed, again in the early 2000s. It always surprises me that so many people have forgotten about the revivals – which were in many ways more successful than the original transmissions. The Tracy Island toy was the most sought after Christmas present for children both times. And it was quite a feat – perhaps one only really matched by the likes of Disney. Children were tuning into a show made three decades previously and accepting it as something of their time.

Having said that, I discovered the shows slightly ahead of their revival courtesy of my mother who bought a video of Thunderbirds from the bargain bin at Woolworths because she’d liked it when she was a child. And it seems to have been instant love.

DAMIAN: What shows do you remember watching as a kid that had their first broadcast in the eighties and how did they compare to favourites like Thunderbirds?

STEPHEN: On the basis of pure vanity, I’d like to point out that I’m sufficiently young enough to only have a couple of sketchy memories of the 80s as a whole! My memories of 80s shows were largely on repeat – and again they were shows like Thomas the Tank Engine that had artistic appeal that allowed them to live beyond their original audience. Thomas, incidentally, was produced by an ex-Thunderbirds model maker. Of my contemporary shows in the first half of the 90s… I watched stuff like Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles. Stuff that was entertaining enough at the time but no real longevity. I have nostalgia when I catch a glimpse of stuff like The Raggy Dolls etc. But that’s it really. Nostalgia. I wouldn’t watch these shows for enjoyment now – whereas the Gerry and Sylvia shows of the 60s are endlessly watchable.

The early 90s was a golden time to discover great shows of the past. Friday evenings on BBC 2 – Thunderbirds, Stingray, Doctor Who, The Champions, The Man From Uncle. Plus Channel 4 showed The Avengers. In 1996 ITV did a repeat run of Upstairs Downstairs. Lots of kids discovered Doctor Who during this time too – and loved it even though it was in black and white. Great television and films will never die, so long as new audiences are given a chance to see them. That’s the sad thing about Netflix algorithms – it reduces your chance of exposure to stuff you wouldn’t normally look for. Also the idea that ‘modern kids won’t like that’ is a nonsense. Children have no preconceptions at first – they’ll either enjoy something or they won’t. In many ways, they’re less set in their ways than adults. Early exposure is the key though.

DAMIAN: Can you describe your childhood, for example, were there other kids you could share your passion for sci-fi and fantasy with or were you something of an outsider?

STEPHEN: I was an outsider. In more ways than just my interests. Even at the peak of the revival I didn’t know anyone who liked the same things I did. I managed to get one friend briefly into Doctor Who – but I suspect he was as interested in Doctor Who as I was in football during the brief moment I ‘got into’ it. I.E. to have a shared interest. Also, I wasn’t really a sci-fi fan. Probably more of an old television fan. By the age of ten I was as content watching stuff like Upstairs Downstairs or I Claudius – which I believe a certain mutual friend was in – as I was anything sci-fi. My principal loves though were the Supermarionation shows and Doctor Who. My interest in Who has waned over the years, but my Supermarionation love… well. Need I say more? Anyway, the short answer is: no. I didn’t have anyone to share my interests with!

Through Century 21 Films, Stephen co-produced two new documentaries about the stories ‘Four to Doomsday’ and ‘Earthshock’ for the blu-ray release of Peter Davison’s first season of Doctor Who

DAMIAN: Were there certain characters from any of the Anderson productions that you identified with or perhaps aspired to be like?

STEPHEN: Not really. I’ve never really looked for characters who were like me – and my family background and life has been so odd I’d be surprised if I ever saw a character I could directly identify with. Nor have I ever needed it. Television was a great way to find cool people unlike you! Did I aspire to be like a character – yes. I always wanted to be as cool as Scott Tracy. That voice! Thunderbird 1! Unfortunately, some things are out of range. I suppose if I started smoking 50 a day now I might manage to get a voice like Jeff’s.

There’s a message that underpins many of the Supermarionation shows about helping others – and I think that did leave a lasting impression. I was in Japan during the big earthquake in 2011 and I think part of my desire to stay and volunteer was partly driven by that childhood message relayed in almost everything the Andersons made.

DAMIAN: I’d like to talk a little bit about finding an audience or readership and how the internet has opened up so many opportunities. What can you tell me about your first experiences and how these led to the documentaries and books?

STEPHEN: Well, I’m guilty to an extent of piggy-backing on someone else’s audience. The background to my production life really begins with the fact that I had an awful time at school – which culminated in three kids trying to knife me. So I left when I was 15 without any qualifications. And that immediately reduces your options. The great thing though about being an outsider as a child is that it gives you lots of time to watch TV! And so whilst I lack any formal film education, by sheer osmosis I think I learnt a lot about how to make films. DVDs – and consequently DVD extras – were becoming a thing at that time. I found out that Terrahawks was being released on DVD and suggested to the releasing company that they do some interviews. Somehow that led to me making something for them – my first credit. And that led to making more behind the scenes programmes. So my audience was stolen really.

I got a bit disillusioned with production in 2008 so gave it up permanently. I wrote my book Filmed in Supermarionation the same year – and then in 2010 moved to Japan. So the last five years back in the world of film, television and advertising has been a bit of a surprise. I was tempted back on a one-off basis because I was offered the chance to turn Filmed in Supermarionation into a documentary. Which in turn has led into something of a Supermarionation revival when we produced three new episodes of Thunderbirds for the 50th anniversary of the show. And my goal with that was not just to celebrate the past but to bring a new audience to what I believe is an art-form that is both beautiful and bonkers!

DAMIAN: In addition to the old cliché about being in the right place at the right time, to what extent would you agree that there’s usually some sort of kind mentor along the journey that helps with making contacts or offers sage advice?

STEPHEN: The self-made man is a myth. We all get through life with the help – and sometimes hindrance – of others. When I did the Terrahawks DVD extras I was out of my depth really. Kevin Davies – who designed the Terrahawks titles – was by then a documentary maker. He immediately clocked that I could do with some help. But he never humiliated me – just gave me little tips about things I could do. So I owe him a lot. And along the way there have been lots of people who have helped me. Including some who I met because I wanted to interview them. Thunderbirds director David Elliott, playwright Rosemary Anne Sisson, actress Jean Marsh, composer Alexander Faris – people I went to meet once, who then helped me in immeasurable ways. Like everyone else I’d like to believe that I’m completely in control, but I think the most you can hope for in life is to be the captain of a boat in stormy seas. You push in certain directions, but the tempestuous waves of a million different factors – people, circumstances, chemicals in your brain – earthquakes! – take you to places you wouldn’t normally end up.

DAMIAN: Well, Russell Lewis, being a huge fan of the Anderson productions himself, greatly admired your work and told me that he pointed the Endeavour team to you. How did you first hear the news that they wanted you to film the Moon Rangers sequences and what was your reaction?

STEPHEN: I got an e-mail one day from the producer, Deanne Cunningham. ‘I’m the producer of an ITV drama. I am trying to contact Stephen La Rivière about an episode we are currently planning involving supermarionation style puppetry. It would be great to speak to you about this if you have the time.’

I can’t imagine not having the time for something like this!

It was very exciting. The life of a freelancer is so often waiting for the e-mail or letter that will start a new adventure. A couple of days passed before I found out what it was about – during which time I’d resigned myself to the fact that maybe someone else had got the job. Not that we have any competitors as such as it’s such a specialised field, but the thought is always there.

When I found out and read the script I was very excited, but also worried. Linking up with another crew can produce problems. We worked on an advert for the Halifax in 2016 and I made the error of allowing them to choose the crew who would work under our advice. The crew were perfectly accomplished – but they’d never made anything like this before. The original Supermarionation crew were very clever. And it’s very difficult to film these puppets and models if you don’t know all the tricks that were used by the original Century 21 Films team. The Halifax crew – not used to practical miniature work – couldn’t understand why they weren’t getting the right results with their usual techniques and consequently it was a very stressful experience. So I was worried about a repeat of that experience.

And so as to rob this story of any tension and drama – Endeavour was the best experience possible. Just wonderful people to work with.

DAMIAN: So, you’ve got the job. Can you take me through the process of how you prepared the Moon Rangers sequences including the design of the characters, their costumes, sets and vehicles?

STEPHEN: We all met in London for an initial meeting and discussed ideas and approaches. I think to begin with both sides preferred to have greater control – which is completely natural. Production is difficult, stressful and costly and you want to get people you can rely on. So naturally they favoured as many of their own crew and I favoured as many of mine. What we ended up with though was a collaboration that – I think – worked out perfectly. My initial preference was that we should build the main set as the scale is really important, but understandably Paul Cripps [production designer] wanted to do that. And taking on board our advice I think he came up with something fantastic. It looks great on camera, whilst having the right sort of aesthetic.

On the flip side, Paul originally planned to do the puppets, but it made more sense for us to build them as our puppet makers are the experts in this particular style of marionette and we wanted to ensure everything worked as we needed. Though, having said that, we still managed to have a mechanical malfunction on the day that nearly drove me to a nervous breakdown. Which is something else I’d like to praise the Endeavour team for. I warned them that these puppets are very temperamental and reshoot time would be essential if needed. All of that was taken into consideration – which makes the whole experience so much easier.

So Paul designed the main puppet set – which matched aesthetically what I really wanted to go for. Even though the episode was set in 1969, I felt that Russell has perfectly caught in the dialogue the essence of Fireball XL5 and Stingray – which had that sort of weird late 50s / early 60s hybrid look.

Rock Renton and below: Steve Zodiac (Fireball XL5), Troy Tempest (Stingray) and Scott Tracy (Thunderbirds)

Paul also gave us sketches as to how he envisaged the characters. Rock Renton was made specially for the show by top sculptor Stephen Mansfield who sculpts all our new characters. Stephen took Paul’s design as a starting point and then translated that into the pre-set proportions of a Supermarionation puppet whilst adding a few influences from the original characters. I was really happy with the look of Rock Renton – he seemed to embody Steve Zodiac, Troy Tempest and Scott Tracy somehow. Once the sculpt was done and approved puppet maker Barry Davies built the puppet and installed all the mechanisms.

The X1 Robot was again built following Paul’s initial design – but with slight changes that occurred as a result of using ordinary household objects. The head, for instance, is a paint pot! He was built by our effects team of Toby Chamberlain and Hilton Fitzsimmons and operated by Elliot Pavelin.

Luna and Colonel Crater followed Paul’s ideas more by chance than design in that we already had puppets that looked right. Paul wanted Colonel Crater to look like Morse creator Colin Dexter. We agreed that an existing puppet – who we’d had built for the new Thunderbirds episodes we’d made in 2015 – again sculpted by Stephen Mansfield – looked the part. Because of the pre-determined proportions of the earlier Supermarionation puppets, you can never really do an exact copy – so you aim to capture the essence. And the puppet previously known as Dawkins seemed just right for the job.

Luna was a previously unused puppet – sculpted for (and deleted from) the Halifax advert by Marina and Lady Penelope creator Mary Turner. Given Luna is an homage to Marina it seemed almost serendipitous that we could provide a puppet sculpted by the same person.

Paul also included some costume sketches. The costumes were made by our costume lady, Liz Comstock-Smith. She followed Paul’s design for the main uniform, whilst the final look of Luna was influenced by some rather fabulous flowing fabric Liz found. Supermarionation is a very organic process – whatever you set out to do morphs across the different elements of production. Not just because of the creative whims of the team – but because the puppets are so specific in what they require. In the case of the costumes, the fabric and construction has to be perfect to allow the puppet to move freely.

On the special effects front, the rocket was kit-bashed by Hilton Fitzsimmons who built two models – just in case we needed to blow up two. Paul arranged the staging and drapes needed for the SFX shots – and had some rather nice moon craters built. The stage was dressed with sand for the drama shots – but we substituted that for other materials when it came to the effects shot itself for a better effect.

We were on set for a week in total. The drama sequences were shot on the Wednesday and Thursday – and then we took over the stage to shoot Moon Rangers. Both puppet and model sequences were shot on a vintage Mitchell on 35mm film by Boyd Skinner our expert DOP who knows all of the lighting and lensing requirements. Malcolm Smith came into do the pyrotechnics (which were very loud). Again, Malcolm is an expert in producing the right sort of explosions that work in miniature. He also has to plan out the timing of each shot precisely because we shoot at high speed. So a 5 second detonation is in fact only 1 second in real life.

The model shots were done in sections. The landing and initial detonation, the collapse, and then various shots of detonation – which had to culminated in the foam of the extinguisher in order to take us back into the main drama. I was very conscious that we were an elaborate, but small part of a big drama and tried to make sure as much as possible that our bits would integrate into the main action.

I can’t stress enough how much of a genuine collaborative effort this was. We were all in constant touch checking with each other that we were getting what we wanted. From my side, I wanted to be providing the show with what its production team wanted. From their side, they were respectful of making sure that I got the things I needed to make sure we ended up with an authentic looking, affectionate homage – not a badly made parody that cheapened the original shows.

I hope that what we ended up with is a true marriage between Russell’s written vision, Shaun’s directorial vision, Paul’s design vision and my vision of how to do new Supermarionation work that doesn’t harm the original shows, but brings a new audience. And given the reaction online – I think we succeeded. In the year since Apollo went out, we’ve been inundated with requests not just to bring Thunderbirds back, but to do full series of Moon Rangers!

Stephen with David Elliott and Mary Turner above them

DAMIAN: How did puppeteer Mary Turner and director David Elliott who both worked on the original Thunderbirds become involved?

STEPHEN: I’ve known Mary and David for the best part of 20 years – I first met them as a young fan wanting to know how the shows were made. Going to Mary for puppeteering seemed natural – not just because she was there, but because she understands television puppeteering. It needs to be subtle as the camera amplifies everything. She was joined by Géraldine Donaldson as the supervisor (she ensures that all the puppets are prepared, dressed, styled and working) and Elliot Pavelin – who worked as a lip-sync operator and puppeteer. Although to be honest we all do a bit of everything really. My co-producer Andrew T. Smith not only looks after the running of the whole operation, but puppeteers, lip-sync operates, sorts out camera problems. We all have to be all rounders!

As for David when we began production on the three anniversary specials of Thunderbirds, he asked if he could direct one. It hadn’t occurred me to ask because it’s a huge strain and he was 84. I hesitantly agreed and… he sat down in the chair and five decades fell away. It was like he’d never been away. He did some amazing work for us.

For Endeavour, I wanted to puppeteer too, and so it made sense to have David on set too. Originally it was to have a second pair of eyes focussed just on the action to make sure we were getting everything – but he’s so full of good ideas it can’t help but be a collaboration. So even though I got sole credit, it was actually both of us – some shots are his, some are mine. One of the shots was actually the idea of my co-producer, Andrew T. Smith. It really is a very collaborative process. If someone’s got a good idea we use it!

It wasn’t just David and Mary – David Graham, the voice of Parker, provided (uncredited) the voice of Colonel Crater. Mary and David Elliott are in their 80s, and David Graham is in his 90s – so I think I might have the oldest working film crew out there!

The dialogue was recorded at Hackenbacker in London. Nigel Heath gave us a fantastic 60s microphone set-up so we could get the authentic sound. Justin T. Lee provided – again uncredited – the Scott Tracy-esque voice of Rock Renton.

DAMIAN: What was Shaun Evans like to work with as an actor and a director?

STEPHEN: As I said earlier on, one of my great concerns about this was having a repeat of the Halifax experience – trying to work through another director. But Shaun said that I should direct the Moon Rangers bit as it was a specialised form of filmmaking. So my level of respect for him is huge. Not every filmmaker has the lack of ego to be able to say, ‘Actually, it would be better if we let this person do this bit’.

That’s not to say Shaun had no involvement – everything done was to service his show. But ultimately, this was one long special effects sequence involving specialised knowledge and it was fantastic that we were allowed to get on and do the things we needed to do.

A specialised sequence like this – in the middle of a big production with its down demands – could have been a nightmare to get right. But it was just a pleasure. Nearly two years on, I’m still surprised to be able to say that as it’s so unusual!

DAMIAN: Who gave the best performance – the puppets or the human actors?

STEPHEN: Given that Rock Renton broke down – mechanically, rather than mentally – for three hours on the shoot day, I’d say the actors. Definitely more reliable. Though, like many temperamental stars, I don’t think any of Rock’s problems showed up on screen.

I would like to highlight one puppet performance though that I loved – Colonel Crater collapsing. Mary Turner operated Crater and her comic timing reduced everyone to fits of laughter. Which on a stressful, complicated day is something we all needed!

DAMIAN: Russ visited the studios at Twickenham for two days and said that they were amongst the happiest he’s ever spent on the show. However, from your perspective, I wonder if having the writer there watching you perform was a little nerve-racking?

STEPHEN: I think many creatives suffer from Impostor Syndrome. The idea that you shouldn’t be there. So on that basis, I like keeping everyone away so I have time to fix the problems before anyone notices. And boy – do the puppets come with lots of problems. Paul Cripps suddenly wandered onto the set unexpectedly when we were having problems with Renton – and I wanted to die from shame. I mean, I know the puppets come with these problems – they either work beautifully, or they’re bastards. Even Gerry used to call them ‘little bastards’. But it worries me that to people who don’t do this on a daily basis that they think it’s incompetence, rather than the nature of this type of fiddly filmmaking.

I was delighted Russell could come down. Not least so I could express my admiration for the script which I think is genuinely very clever. In one minute it totally distills the essence of those shows. And it’s enormously quotable. Amongst my crew it’s easily the production we reference the most.

DAMIAN: You know, I think Russ actually found the experience very moving and not just because he’s a fan of Stingray, Thunderbirds and the other Anderson shows, but he told me that watching you work reminded him of when he was a kid making 8mm stop-motion films with Action Men. Essentially, as an artist, would you agree that you’re not only operating the puppets, but also gently holding people’s childhoods in your hands?

STEPHEN: Yes! Absolutely. And I’m very conscious of that in everything we do. We’re playing in a toy-box that deserves respect. My only intention with everything we do is that we tell the audience – new and old – that these shows were fantastic. Of everything we’ve done, I think Moon Rangers has done the most to promote that idea. We have big plans for Supermarionation – and Moon Rangers has really helped us on that path.

DAMIAN: Was it your idea for Russ to have the little cameo?

STEPHEN: Actually, I think it was Géraldine’s idea – our puppetry supervisor. The hand insert wasn’t in the script – but the script made quite a bit about the human sized props. So I thought it’d be fun to do a human hand sequence not least because everyone remembers them. But also, it would serve the main drama plot. As we were preparing for the shot Géraldine said, ‘Wouldn’t it be a nice idea to give Russ a cameo?’ So she went away and made a sleeve for him out of a bit of the remaining puppet costume material and he came onto the set to play Rock Renton. It’s a lovely touch. We were also able to film a bit of Russell on set with the puppets as we were at the end of the reel – hopefully a nice memento for him of the day.

Thinking about that day I feel so warm towards the experience. That’s the magic of these puppets – despite the frustrations of production – there is just a magic of stepping onto those sets and seeing the characters live.

DAMIAN: What’s next for you and Century 21?

STEPHEN: Stand by for action… We’ll be back. We just can’t say anything about it yet!

DAMIAN: Stephen, thank you very much indeed.

STEPHEN: No, thank you. I’m not blind to the fact we were 1 minute of a much-loved series. But as I’ve said to everyone else until their eyes glaze over, I loved the whole thing. Normally old work makes you wince – but I’m hugely proud of my tiny part in Endeavour.

Stay up to date with all my latest Endeavour cast and crew interviews via twitter @MrDMBarcroft

THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2019: Simon Harrison

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DAMIAN: You’ve appeared in some big-budget Hollywood films such as Everest, London Has Fallen and Transformers in addition to roles in high-profile TV series including Humans, Grantchester and Fearless. However, once an actor appears in Endeavour, they are forever part of the Morse Universe -indeed Inspector Morse, Lewis and Endeavour have collectively become a treasured national institute- and there’s a certain immortality about becoming part of this isn’t there?

SIMON: Absolutely. All three shows, deservedly, have been hugely popular, and have been part of my world as a viewer since I was a teenager. What makes them so special for me is the combination of terrific writing, great performances and the twisting, turning plots that keep you guessing until the final frame. Russell [Lewis] has an encyclopedic knowledge of Morse’s world, and the fact he writes every episode of Endeavour astonishes me.

DAMIAN: Do you remember the audition scene or any of the dialogue you were given last year for the role of (then) Detective Inspector Ronnie Box?

SIMON: I do. The scene I played in the audition was the one where Box turns nasty (or nastier!) on Trewlove. There were so many juicy lines for an actor in that scene, but my favourite was telling Strange to stay ‘As you were, Tubby’. If that didn’t tell you all you need to know about Box’s character, I don’t know what would!

DAMIAN: What were your initial thoughts about how to play him and did this evolve significantly after landing the role and reading the script in full?

SIMON: He was written so well, that it was easy to tap into him. He felt to me, that he was from a different generation to Morse and Thursday – that he was from the world of John Thaw’s other great show, The Sweeney. So as part of my preparation I started watching episodes of The Sweeney (any excuse), so that I could understand where Box was coming from and ground him. Even though he’s young, he feels that he has seen a great deal more of the “Real World” than the Cowley lot.

DAMIAN: At what point did you know that Box would be a recurring character?

SIMON: As it happens, Shaun and I live quite close to each other. I bumped into him one day, and he told me that they were talking about bringing my character back, potentially, for one episode in the new series. He was very clear that they were still just floating the idea and not to get my hopes up – which I obviously did. A month went by and I still hadn’t heard anything, so I presumed they had thought better of it. A week later, my agent called to say they wanted me for the whole series, and my jaw hit the floor.

DAMIAN: So, PASSENGER (third episode from last series), you find yourself standing on the set of Cowley CID ready to film with one of television’s finest ensemble casts including Shaun Evans, Roger Allam and Anton Lesser – what’s going through your mind as you prepare for a take?

SIMON: There were obviously nerves as I had watched these actors be brilliant for so long, but I couldn’t wait to play Box, and to see how they would react to this character. The Endeavour set is also an extremely happy and encouraging place to work. The cast, the crew, the make up and costume departments all make you feel welcome, so by the time you actually start acting, all you’re thinking about is the scene.

DAMIAN: In the dynamic and explosive scene, Box calls Strange Tubby as you mentioned, makes spitefully sexist comments to Trewlove -all of which was bad enough- but suggesting Bright had anything more than a soft spot for Trewlove was unforgivable wasn’t it?

SIMON: What a rotter!

DAMIAN: However, particularly considering you’re both Shakespearean actors, it must have been enormous fun to play such a meat and potatoes scene with an actor of such calibre and gravitas as Anton?

SIMON: It was an absolute joy. Especially as I first worked with Anton in a production of The Winter’s Tale at the Royal Shakespeare Company eleven years previously. He is such a brilliant actor that you don’t feel like you are acting when you are in a scene with him. He’s also a lovely, lovely man.

DAMIAN: Unlike frequent antagonist DS Peter Jakes (Series 1-3) who audiences eventually began to warm to, and also to a lesser extent Bright who was somewhat cantankerous when first introduced, there surely can’t be any such redemption for a character as despicable as Box was in his debut episode can there?

SIMON: I’m not sure if redemption is what viewers will necessarily see with Box this series. However, what I hope they see is a real human being. One of the joys of being in the entire series, is that I got to explore Box’s character in so much detail. He doesn’t always react to situations the way you would assume, and sometimes he reacts EXACTLY the way you would expect.

DAMIAN: Always planning ahead, planting seeds for future narrative arcs and expanding the Morse mythology, the introduction of Box significantly played into the evolution of this sixth series didn’t it?

SIMON: It did. The end of series five gave us the trauma of Fancy’s death, and series six begins with the fall out from that. Everything feels different for the main cast now, as they struggle with moving on. They are apart from one another, both physically and emotionally, and Box and Jago steam into the vacuum that has been left. They have strong personalities and a very clear sense of how they see the job. It’s fascinating to see Morse and Thursday powerless to what is going on around them.

DAMIAN: It must have been somewhat daunting to play Roger Allam’s boss?

SIMON: I didn’t really think in those terms to be honest. It was more excitement about working with someone I’ve respected for such a long time. It was the same with Shaun too. I’ve always believed, no matter how experienced you are, you can always learn from working with great actors. They are also very generous and lovely people, so working with them and, of course, Richard Riddell , who plays DS Jago, was huge fun.

DAMIAN: I’ve dissected and analyzed every script, discussed every episode in great depth during interviews with the writer and I’m still yet to figure out every one of Russ’ hidden nods and cultural references. How do you find the scripts and how do they differ from other projects you’ve worked on?

SIMON: What I love about Russ’ scripts is that the world he has created is so rich in detail. Not just the period detail, which feels completely authentic, but also the world of Morse. There seem to be so many subtle nods to characters and ideas that feed into the established Morsian (is that a word?) universe, that I’m sure most of them passed me by! It is also the relationships, that have been moulded over the five previous series that feel completely honest and human.

DAMIAN: Simon, thank you very much indeed and help yourself to a glass of Pinot Noir.

SIMON: Thanks. It’s been a pleasure. But if I’m drinking as Ronnie Box, I’ll take a dram of your finest blended whiskey!