An exclusive Endeavour interview with director, Kate Saxon

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2023

DAMIAN: Apart from Shaun Evans, you have directed more episodes of Endeavour than anyone else. However, before we discuss these, can you tell me how you got into directing?

KATE: I was an actress first. I started acting at school and at 14 years old, was in the RSC, in a wonderful production called The Dillen, followed by its sequel, Mary, After The Queen. Ron Cook was the lead – and alongside a professional cast, the productions made use of many local people to make up the ensemble roles. I’d hoped they’d get me out of school occasionally! I went to a strict girl’s grammar school and hated it.

So I left school to move to a more modern 6th form drama college, then Hull Uni and studied English Lit and Drama. I spent a year out after, at first acting, then for the majority of the year, working in a psychiatric hospital (I was considering training to be a drama therapist), then I went to study acting at East 15, then graduated and acted for several years.

Acting wasn’t for me. I wasn’t well suited to waiting for someone to give me a job; I wanted to make my own work, and in rehearsals, I’d always be dying to know how the director would craft the production. I realised, eventually, that my head was behaving like a director’s, not an actor’s.

I used to direct community and youth theatre alongside my acting career and I managed to move into professional theatre directing from there. My first professional show was The Secret Garden at Salisbury Playhouse. Immediately after, I left the Playhouse and began my assisting years in Opera, which I adored; it’s there that I started to learn my craft as a director.

I’ve spent the majority of my career as a theatre director. Around 20 years ago, I added directing videogames to that, then around 10 years ago, started directing TV too. I got into TV via the Eastenders/BBC director training scheme, which was a brilliant beginning – a month of learning from scratch.

DAMIAN: Obviously actors audition, but how do directors get chosen to work on a project?

KATE: I don’t really know! It’s still a mystery to me. You’d have to ask the Execs and Producers who choose us!

But, in my experience of TV so far, it’s generally been because a producer or Exec has already seen my work and liked it. So they contact my agent and ask me to come in for a meeting. We’ll chat about the project (they usually send a script for me to respond to), and if they like what I have to say and feel we’ll work well together, then I guess that’s when the offers happen.

DAMIAN: When your agent sends you a script, what sort of material are you looking for and are there any genres that you find particularly interesting?

KATE: No, I don’t like to restrict myself to one genre or another. That’s why I’ve had such an eclectic career. I get bored easily and am far happier and achieve the most when I’m juggling several projects at once (my normal status quo). So, as long as the writing is good – and I think it’s a story worth telling, I’m invested.

Having said that, I’m definitely drawn to the ‘mess’ of humanity – the moments we cross a line or feel something unexpected. I’m not so keen on ‘clean’ or neat in terms of psychology in characters. The more complex the better, therefore.

DAMIAN: Did your background in directing theatre and opera have anything to do with you getting the job to direct your first Endeavour film, ZENANA, which of course, featured those magnificent sequences in the Venice opera house?

KATE: Yes, I’m sure it did. I met with Helen Ziegler (then Exec) and Jim Levison (then Producer) and we talked about the script for two hours. I remember Helen being very pleased to hear about my time working in opera and theatre. For me, that script was ideal! A rare chance to combine all my creative loves at once.

DAMIAN: Which departments do you collaborate with most closely during the pre-production stage in designing a visual plan for each film?

KATE: You really do need to collaborate closely with every department in pre-production. TV is a group effort. No one can do their best work in isolation. Good communication, and making sure my ‘vision’ (though I hate that word, sounds so pretentious!) is clear for all, is paramount, so that all departments have a direction to work on. And that ‘vision’ is in turn, about realising the writer’s intentions and working out how best to achieve that, alongside taking on board the overarching intentions of the Execs, in terms of their ambitions for the series.

It’s important to share your thoughts with the department heads early: bandying around ideas and inspirations with the Designers and DOP is a privilege. It’s also important to be responsive (and to respond quickly to queries), so as to enable the person asking the question to move on with their work. This is of utmost importance.

The visuals begin with the Location Managers and location hunting. Whenever I see somewhere that’s interesting, I’ll want Mad [Madelaine Leech], Designer, to come too – see if she feels it’ll work for her. The 1st AD and DOP will ideally come too. So right from that early on, we’re working as a team; imagining and conjuring together.

At the same time, I’ll be working with the Casting Director on ideas for the guest cast and we’ll hold auditions. Within a couple of weeks, it’s time to work with the Costume Designer too, looking at their idea boards, chatting about how we see the characters. The Make Up Designer will often attend those meetings too.

And of course work on the script is ongoing right through pre-production (and the shoot more often than not!). New drafts, rewrites. Notes. Discussing ideas and character arcs. So you also need to constantly adjust your plans according to script changes – and to ensure the team knows about any planned changes too.

The Design team is the busiest in terms of meetings to attend and emails I need to respond to: we have ‘page turn’ meetings, where I sit with the whole design department and we go through all design, set, dressing and props needs, for every scene. And there’s an unimaginable number of design emails every day, everything ranging from photos of sourced props to approve or reject, planned design and layouts of location sets to discuss, to the smallest details, such as what type-face I might want on a letter heading!

DAMIAN: In terms of camera angles and setups, how much of this is pre-planned and to what extent do they typically need to change on the day of filming?

KATE: For me, they’re not massively pre-planned. What I will do, is to create a shotlist that’s a brief bullet list of what shots I feel each scene needs. If I want a crane or drone or anything ‘extra’ like that (car mounts etc), then I need to make that decision early on, so that the equipment is booked and the time is allowed in the schedule.

I revisit my shotlists for the next day, the night before each shoot day, and invariably change it! Some directors love to storyboard everything and have a clear and set plan. That’s not for me. I think it’s because I come from a theatre background, so my strengths are in curating and leading in an ensemble environment – the fascinating job for me is in how to make the most of every cast member and every team member on that set. If you like, it’s effectively how to unlock the collective imagination and steer it on one course.

This approach means I do, of course, need a very clear head, and to know the script inside out, along with what I want to achieve from a scene. I’m a very decisive person. Annoyingly so, sometimes, I imagine. But this means I’m secure in my tastes and therefore not concerned that many voices will distil my ‘take’ in a negative way: I’m lucky in that it means I can quickly take on board the great offers, whilst also explaining why others don’t fit with the way I want to present the story, without finding the input distracting.

DAMIAN: Incidentally, does shooting on location – especially in bustling Oxford – require more intricate pre-planning and is it significantly less problematic to film in a studio?

KATE: Not for me, really. It does for the locations, design and assistant director teams! Of course there are issues such as crowd control when we’re filming in a busy part of Oxford, say. But for me, location shooting wins over studio sets every time. The possibilities tend to be greater. So, if anything, locations tend to unlock more opportunities. When you’re in a standing set, it can feel tough to find interesting shots when you’re just in a box.

DAMIAN: Which stage of a production do you find most artistically rewarding or challenging: pre-production, the actual shoot or post-production?

KATE: Honestly, all three in different ways. Pre-production can be where the most rewarding work happens on the script or on finding the perfect actor for a role. The shoot is where the magic happens. Then the edit and post is where you get to sculpt it. It’s amazing how much you can restructure the way you choose to tell a story in post-production.

DAMIAN: Is there an implicit understanding that a director working on an Endeavour film should remain consistent with the visual style of the “Morse Universe” or are they encouraged to pursue their own visual aesthetics?

KATE: The latter. Damien [Timmer], Exec, has always loved the Eps that have a strong individual style. And Russ [Lewis], has written such brilliant and wide ranging stories. Russ has an excellent ear for dialogue and a sharp and insightful brain – it’s always a great challenge trying to keep up with him.

In terms of different aesthetics with which to shoot these scripts, last year, for example, when I had a story to tell [TERMINUS] that was set in a haunting shut up hotel and demanded lots of snow, it was abundantly clear that a different approach was needed. It had elements that owed a lot to Agatha Christie, others to noir, or thriller genres.

Alongside this freedom, there are always nods to Morse. My final Ep of Endeavour, (and the final Endeavour Ep ever of course!), has a scene that owes a lot to Morse, even down to me emulating some shots and in the use of supporting artists at a key moment. I can’t say what it is, but it’ll be interesting to see if the fans spot it. 

DAMIAN: Is it purely coincidental that you’ve directed ZENANA, TERMINUS and EXEUNT which are all the third and final films of series 7, 8 and 9 respectively?

KATE: No, when I first came on board with the Mammoth team, it just happened to be the final Ep of the series that I was offered. From then on, it made sense to keep it that way. I like getting to wrap up all the juicy stories and get some ‘big numbers’ to stage!

DAMIAN: What was it like working with Matt on the Opera sequences for ZENANA and his scores for Endeavour more generally?

KATE: Wonderful. Matt and I really interrogate the story and intentions. He loves me to talk him through what my goals are for the film overall, as well as how I see the character journeys and obstacles. He likes to respond to what I have to say as well as what he sees – it’s a combination of his responses as a viewer (what touches him when he watches the Final Cut) – and how I want to steer it. ZENANA was especially exciting because he wrote an original short opera for the piece, which Russ wrote the libretto for.

DAMIAN: Which one of Russ’ scripts has surprised you the most?

KATE: Last year’s episode [TERMINUS]. It was dark and quirky! It also had elements borrowed from Carry On films (alongside the influences I mentioned above). Russ loves, loves, loves, drawing from all sorts of literary and film sources and writing nods to them in Endeavour. I swear I miss more of them than I catch!

DAMIAN: I’m a great admirer of Anton and consider him to be one of our very finest actors and so I was absolutely shocked when he told me that he didn’t know how to play the scene where he hears about the death of his wife in ZENANA, but apparently you reassured him that he absolutely could. Can you tell me any more about this from your perspective as a director and describe your approach of putting actors at ease in order to get the best possible performance from them – especially, when quite often, the shooting schedule doesn’t always allow for much time to rehearse?

KATE: Firstly, Anton is, as you say, the most exquisite and truthful actor. He handled that moment brilliantly. Anton is quite right when he said he didn’t know how to play it: he was open about that with me, as he says in your interview. That was because Bright is quite a closed book in terms of his emotional life, so Anton queried whether he should bat the truth of it away – almost be angry at the revelation at first. I suggested that rather than do that, he just allow Bright to try to listen to what he was being told… to truly hear it, whilst being aware this would be extraordinary news to hear, and therefore difficult to take in. That rather than battle it, he could try to comprehend it, through a defensive wall that was trying its best to suppress it. It’s that juxtaposition between the hidden inner emotions and the outer resolve that’s so painful and truthful.

And I did tell him he absolutely knew how to do that. Because Anton is one of the most emotionally open and brave actors I’ve ever worked with. So much so, he’s like the lightest touchpaper – utterly responsive. You’d never want to give a generalised or ill-thought-through note to Anton. If you earn his trust, he’ll take whatever suggestions you offer him. Therefore, as a director, your suggestions really count, so they’ve got to be good!

And you’re right about time: we didn’t have any rehearsal time for that scene ahead of the shoot. This was all done in a few discreet conversations on set. A huge part of my job as a director is to reassure an actor that they can reach the most nebulous or challenging emotional moments of their character’s journey. To do that, they must feel safe and must be able to trust me. They’re the one in front of the camera, so it’s really important to me that they know I have their back.

That means me understanding their characters well and making astute observations about how a moment might land. In a nutshell, it means me doing my homework. Actors can sniff out a director’s lack of knowledge in a nanosecond.

It also means offering notes and suggestions when they need them and keeping quiet when they don’t. It means listening to them and being their ‘performance confidante’ in a sense, i.e. someone they can bounce ideas off and who they’re not afraid will judge, so they can try anything.

Additionally, it means giving them time and not rushing. This last statement is the hardest to achieve on a TV set, when the clock is ticking. A good 1st AD is our ally in that, as they’ll often schedule tricky emotional scenes early in the day, in order to try to avoid that end of day rush.

DAMIAN: Why do you think you were given the honour of directing the final Endeavour film?

KATE: It IS a great honour, isn’t it? I imagine it must be because Mammoth, Russ, Shaun and Rog, were happy with what I’d done before… I certainly hope so.

DAMIAN: And was there any additional pressure for you given the expectations of a huge and devoted fanbase who’ve watched and loved these characters for a decade?

KATE: Yes, absolutely. Having worked with the cast for 3 seasons, I knew how much care they have for serving their characters well. Especially for Shaun and Roger, knowing that Morse never mentions Thursday again, meant they felt a huge responsibility to tell the story of why that could be, with integrity and heart. They’re both brilliant actors and collaborators, so we talked a lot about how we would sculpt that story; what their emotional truth was. I’m honoured they’ve trusted me these last three years and let me join with them in partnership.

Damien and Russ also felt the pressure of how to close the series faithfully. So it meant there was a lot of discussion about what the script should be. It also meant we deliberately left the script overlong for the shoot, so that we had options in the edit. This meant shooting fast, when of course I’d have loved a luxurious shoot where I felt I had time to really craft something special. Every director of course wants that! It was more a case of hit the ground running and never breathe, pause or look back until it was in the bag… Directing TV drama is always such a whirlwind, that I never quite know whether it’s marvellous or a big old mess by the end.

In fact, the truth is probably bits of each. Then you try to curate that well in post production until it’s cohesive and impelling. That’s the aim. Ultimately, we just have to hold our breath and wait to see what the viewers think.

DAMIAN: Kate, thank you very much indeed.

KATE: Thank you for asking such great questions!

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2023