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THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2023: ABIGAIL THAW

An exclusive Endeavour interview with Abigail Thaw

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2023

Please note that this interview contains spoilers for those who haven’t seen the final episode.

DAMIAN: Although you were just a kid in the early 70s – indeed, I remember you previously mentioned to me playing football in the streets and sitting outside pubs with a coke and a packet of crisps while the adults lived it up inside – you probably still remember the threat of power cuts and energy rationing, mass protests, trade union marches and strikes – not to mention the Cold War and possible nuclear attacks. Here we are in 2023 and much of the same is happening once again. As a society, we’ve not really done very well have we?

ABIGAIL: No. It’s depressing to me to see how many of our great services are in need of appreciation, respect and above all a decent living wage. It is extraordinary that the people who keep this country going are vilified and blamed for disrupting our lives. They are asking to be able to feed their families and live a decent life in exchange for enabling us to live ours.

It seems every profession that keeps this country going is at risk. These are essential  to our society. These people are risking their jobs and livelihood out of desperation, not a whim. They don’t get up in the morning and think ‘How can we mess with everyone’s day?’ They’re saying, ‘we cannot survive!’ So if you still want an NHS, trains, legal aid, education, Royal Mail then help us. Then we can her you.

It’s called society. We need these workers more than ever. And it’s disgusting to me that the government doesn’t engage and do something about it. It makes me ashamed.

DAMIAN: In terms of life experience, Dorothea Frazil has seen it all including the war in Korea, and yet, the audience is yet to see all of her as a much more complicated character than screen time sometimes allows. If there’s one issue that constantly reoccurs throughout my interviews with many of the regular cast throughout the years, it’s that so much of their scenes that reveal fascinating insights into their characters are often cut. Would you, like me and I imagine millions of worldwide fans of the show, support the idea of re-editing episodes so that the deleted scenes could finally be included?

ABIGAIL: Oh goodness, now wouldn’t that be nice! I would love to see everyone else’s personal journey. We’ll have to wait and see on that one.

DAMIAN: In addition to fans desperately wanting to learn more about their favourite characters, for me at least, one of the reasons I’d really like to see more is because I’d love to see how Dorothea interacts with other characters. So while we obviously often see her with Endeavour, and to a slightly lesser extent, Thursday and Strange, wouldn’t it be wonderful to see her interact more with other characters such as Max and Win for example?

ABIGAIL: Well, yes. As you say, there were scenes that Russ wrote with Win and Max. I remember in particular a nice one with Win where we share a cigarette when Joan is inside the bank as a hostage. You see Win the mother letting go and having a fag through sheer terror and Dorothea, childless but empathetic. Two women.

And I remember a scene with Max where we met up in the pub… happy times!

CODA (S3:E4) during the bank robbery

DAMIAN: I feel sure that Dorothea would get on famously with Max as they sat gossiping and drinking together – indeed, I’m still hoping for that spin-off for the two of you! – but what do you think Win would make of her if they spent more time together as they’re quite different women aren’t they?

ABIGAIL: I suspect there would be a little disapproval from Win and a little eye-rolling from Dorothea! But I would imagine they would get each other’s number fairly quickly and a mutual respect. Win has followed the rules, to a degree. She would be familiar to Dorothea in that age. Win’s done what she was brought up to do but also found her own personal path with the dancing lessons and getting a job. And I’ve always thought Dorothea does what she was brought up to do as well.

She is an anomaly from that period but I doubt she could be where she is if she didn’t have a strong sense of self. And that would have come from her upbringing. I sort of imagined a father who was ambitious for her and maybe wanted a boy initially but did what he could with a girl! He encouraged learning, determination and fearlessness. So she’s either done so much because of running from trauma and never feeling good enough or the reverse and feeling she can do anything. That’s a whole new story!

Kent Finn in GAME (S4:E1)

DAMIAN: We’ve had a couple of slight references to Dorothea dating and a less subtle relationship with Kent Finn which kind of crashed and burned. I remember you once telling me that as the series has progressed, Dorothea was a ‘little older’, ‘a little sadder’ but also ‘perhaps a little more hopeful.’ I’d hate to think of her as always living alone, drinking and smoking far too much like someone else I could mention. Do you think Dorthea is hopeful that she’ll meet someone special someday?

ABIGAIL: Hmm. Maybe. I think she has more optimism than Endeavour. Sometimes I think her advice to him is from the depths of her own experience: don’t turn out like me. On the other hand she knows how to have a good time and grabs it with both hands. There was a scene we couldn’t shoot for various reasons at the beginning of film 1 of Series 9 where they got me a beautiful vintage YSL suit to wear to the concert. It was fabulous and we shot a day in it. And I thought, ‘yeah, she’s still optimistic. She’s still got it going on!’ But she was also at the concert alone, so… I dunno.

DAMIAN: If Dorothea was a real person who happened to be a friend of yours and you were trying to fix her up on a date, how would you describe her?

ABIGAIL: Hah! Tricky one, let’s see: Opinionated. Good sense of humour. Laughs at herself but never at the work. Could probably drink you under the table. Can talk about pretty much any subject. Sassy. No games. Don’t expect her to cook you a meal but she’ll happily eat yours.

DAMIAN: I remember interviewing Charlotte Mitchell, one of the previous costume designers working on the show while it was still set in the 60s and I asked her about finding the right clothes for your character and she said, ‘Abigail has the most amazing figure. She is wonderful to dress and has to show an element of power dressing, yet she is still an attractive woman. In the 60s women would have been looked down on if they didn’t wear skirts in the office, and even though she is the boss so could flaunt these rules, there are standards she likes to keep up. She has a silhouette of the early 60s due to her age and formality which is a joy to design.’

How would you describe Dorothea’s look and how do you think it has changed as the show reaches 1972?

ABIGAIL: Charlotte is very kind. What a lovely thing to say. Costume fittings are always a case of subduing your self-consciousness and embracing the character. I think the look has softened as she gets into the 1970s. As has my figure! I love wearing trousers. But they don’t love me!

Wearing the trousers up until the end: Abigail’s last day filming (Photo by director, Kate Saxon)

DAMIAN: Do you like to have any input into what Dorothea might or might not wear?

ABIGAIL: Oh yes. We have been very lucky with our costume designers and I have a lot of input. There will always be a discussion beforehand and then the designer will send suggestions and get the general palette but you discover the final look together as you try things on. Often it’s a complete surprise as to what works and looks and feels right. I like to be comfortable as Abigail.

And I like as little fuss as possible – tricky when you have hair that needs taming for the 1960s. It was always a battle of the hairspray can with poor, long-suffering Irene Napier. But as Charlotte says, you have to remember the times you’re portraying and the character, so you need to be reminded you can’t rock up in jeans and flats. Not when you’re running a newspaper as a woman in the 1960s.

DAMIAN: Have you kept any of Dorothea’s clothes or anything else as souvenirs from the show?

ABIGAIL: Maybe… Perhaps an aforementioned suit. And a newspaper…

DAMIAN: As you were about to do the read-throughs for the final three scripts, what were you looking for or perhaps hoping to find in your final scenes?

ABIGAIL: I really wasn’t expecting anything. At one point I thought I might have been killed off. So it was a surprise to find I was in all three episodes. The older Morse never mentions a Dorothea as far as I’m aware although you’d have to ask Russ.

I was delighted that she is so jolly at the wedding. That she’s dancing and flirting and having a good time. And, she catches the bouquet! So that’s pretty optimistic. Maybe she meets the person of her dreams after all…

DAMIAN: Beyond your character, what were your impressions of the script more generally for the very final episode and also how Russ might reconcile and explain why John Thaw’s Morse never mentioned Fred Thursday?

ABIGAIL: I loved the script. It made me cry. Especially that image of the jags, echoing the first episode and symbolising everything. Russ is brilliant at doing so much with so little. And the joy of the wedding. Everyone having fun. Except the utter tragedy of it. And no, Morse will not mention Thursday again because he broke his heart. There are few grey areas for Morse. He is protecting Thursday and protecting himself by trying to forget him. Which we all know is impossible. And Thursday is the father of the love of his life. Who has also broken his heart. The whole Thursday family is a minefield!

DAMIAN: And how do you think the final episode of Endeavour compares to the final episode of Inspector Morse?

ABIGAIL: I couldn’t begin to compare. They are very different animals. With Endeavour we know it is leading on to something else.

STRIKER (S8:E1)

DAMIAN: This is Your Life was referenced in the previous series with Lewis Macleod playing Eamonn Andrews and I couldn’t help but wonder what you remember about your appearance on the show in 1981 when your father was handed the big red book?

ABIGAIL: I remember a lot. In fact I did it twice, the first time with Sheila. I was a very self-conscious teenager with dad’s so it wasn’t an altogether happy memory but it was fascinating. But that’s another story…

This Is Your Life broadcast 18th March 1981

DAMIAN: Having spent time in Oxford as a child when visiting your mother who was a mature student there and involved with marches and meetings for the Women’s Movement during the early 70s and given that both your father and yourself have obviously spent so much time filming on location there, do you feel sentimental towards Oxford or emotionally tied to the city in any way after all these years?

ABIGAIL: Absolutely. I love it there. There’s a very strong connection. And my stepfather and younger brothers went there. I should say, I didn’t just visit my mother, I lived with her. I went to nursery school while she was there.

Abigail’s daughter plays Abigail’s mother, Sally Alexander, in ORACLE (S7:E1)

And, I was at the first Women’s Liberation conference that Russell wrote about in series 7. There’s a film called Misbehaviour staring Keira Knightly as my mother set at that time. Worth a watch!

And Keira Knightly as Sally Alexander

DAMIAN: I don’t know if it’s because I’m such a geek or because I care so much about the characters – of course, I might be guilty on both counts! – but I’ve frequently pestered Russ with ridiculously pedantic questions about Dorothea such as how she got into journalism and why she stopped working as a war correspondent and author.

Although he has told me that he thinks he remembers invoking some of the great women war correspondents of World War II with you – particularly Lee Miller in Hitler’s Bathtub as a possible inspiration in Dorothea’s life – he also mentioned to me that he never went into her hinterland any more than one went into the childhood history of Jake Gittes (Jack Nicholson in Chinatown) or Harry Morgan (Humphrey Bogart) or his rummy companion (Eddie played by Walter Brennan) in To Have and Have Not.

Lee Miller, American photographer and photojournalist

Furthermore, Russ mentioned most recently about not filling in more detail than necessary, which gives the audience room to wonder. Do you think that this approach not only achieves this but also gives you more freedom as an actor?

ABIGAIL: Yes, I think it does. I love Russ’s cultural references. There are few as well read or well versed on culture, old and new, as Russ. He knows not to burden an actor when it’s the long game. Otherwise you can be held back on potential plot twists or character traits. And that would jar with the audience too. It’s fun to enjoy your own fantasy life for the character you’re playing.

Martha Gelhorn: American novelist, travel writer, journalist and arguably one of the great war correspondents of the 20th century

I read a lot of Martha Gelhorn’s work to inspire me. And of course, I did always have a book of Lee Miller’s photos by my bed when we were filming, but I never spoke to Russ about the finer details of his own inspiration for the character.

DAMIAN: And, although he’s not necessarily comparing Dorothea to them, but rather using them as examples, isn’t it interesting that he’s referenced such iconic characters played by Academy Award-winning actors in such legendary films when discussing your role?

ABIGAIL: Well, I was going to say… I did notice that. No pressure, then! Just as well I hear that now rather than at the beginning…

DAMIAN: In our last interview, I asked you, intertextual Freudian nightmares aside, I often think that Dorthea and Endeavour would make a great couple were it not for their age difference and if he ever had a long term girlfriend, wouldn’t she have a good reason to be jealous of his relationship with Dorothea and your reply was so brilliant and insightful that I’d like to quote it again in full…

‘Well, probably. In the sense that Dorothea has access to parts of his interior life that he doesn’t share lightly. So even though it’s not sexual, it is intimate. When people ask me why Endeavour and Dorothea don’t get together – apart from the Freudian nightmare! – I think of the ancient Greeks’ belief that friendship is more valuable than erotic love: the latter makes things messy and ultimately can end. Friendship endures and deepens.’

…Given that the friendship between Dorothea and Endeavour has indeed endured and deepened over nine series, was there any added additional pressure as an actor to reflect this in your performance one last time?

ABIGAIL: Never pressure. Working with Shaun is so easy. Our problem was often that we’d run through a scene and think, that’s it! Can’t improve on that. It’s us! But of course we had to make it work for the director and audience too! Russ had an uncanny ability to check in to our off screen friendship. Although I have to say Endeavour can be surprisingly minty and sometimes downright rude.

At times the desire to exclaim ‘Ooooooo, get you!’ a la Kenneth Williams was too hard to resist after a take! But it’s only because Morse is hurting and is so bad at being vulnerable, isn’t he? That’s what often makes him snap.

DAMIAN: What was it like saying goodbye to a cast and crew who you’ve become friends with over the last decade?

ABIGAIL: Heartbreaking. But we will still see each other. Indeed we have quite a bit already.

DAMIAN: Looking back over thirty-six episodes of Endeavour, do you have a favourite episode or a scene that best encapsulates Dorothea?

ABIGAIL: So many! That’s a tough one. ‘Snappy Jenkins’ at the nuclear power station [HARVEST, S4:E4]. And talking to Morse about “girl trouble”. And gently admonishing Thursday with ‘You’ve got your job and I’ve got mine’ in the pub. That was an episode with a lot more background stuff for Dorothea that didn’t make the final edit.

HARVEST (S4:E4)

But I suppose most of all was the episode where I’m kidnapped and fight my assailant. That was a great episode to shoot. The row with Morse, the argument with my assistant, choking the villain, being rescued by Thursday! Joy.

GAME (S4:E1)

DAMIAN: As I said to you in our first interview, I think your father would have been so proud of you and your contribution to Endeavour. And, personally, I feel so proud to have had the opportunity of talking to you about Dorothea over the years. Abigail, thank you so very much.

ABIGAIL: And thank you very much, Damian. For your kind words and support. It has been an honour and a privilege.

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2023

THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2023: KATE SAXON

An exclusive Endeavour interview with director, Kate Saxon

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2023

DAMIAN: Apart from Shaun Evans, you have directed more episodes of Endeavour than anyone else. However, before we discuss these, can you tell me how you got into directing?

KATE: I was an actress first. I started acting at school and at 14 years old, was in the RSC, in a wonderful production called The Dillen, followed by its sequel, Mary, After The Queen. Ron Cook was the lead – and alongside a professional cast, the productions made use of many local people to make up the ensemble roles. I’d hoped they’d get me out of school occasionally! I went to a strict girl’s grammar school and hated it.

So I left school to move to a more modern 6th form drama college, then Hull Uni and studied English Lit and Drama. I spent a year out after, at first acting, then for the majority of the year, working in a psychiatric hospital (I was considering training to be a drama therapist), then I went to study acting at East 15, then graduated and acted for several years.

Acting wasn’t for me. I wasn’t well suited to waiting for someone to give me a job; I wanted to make my own work, and in rehearsals, I’d always be dying to know how the director would craft the production. I realised, eventually, that my head was behaving like a director’s, not an actor’s.

I used to direct community and youth theatre alongside my acting career and I managed to move into professional theatre directing from there. My first professional show was The Secret Garden at Salisbury Playhouse. Immediately after, I left the Playhouse and began my assisting years in Opera, which I adored; it’s there that I started to learn my craft as a director.

I’ve spent the majority of my career as a theatre director. Around 20 years ago, I added directing videogames to that, then around 10 years ago, started directing TV too. I got into TV via the Eastenders/BBC director training scheme, which was a brilliant beginning – a month of learning from scratch.

DAMIAN: Obviously actors audition, but how do directors get chosen to work on a project?

KATE: I don’t really know! It’s still a mystery to me. You’d have to ask the Execs and Producers who choose us!

But, in my experience of TV so far, it’s generally been because a producer or Exec has already seen my work and liked it. So they contact my agent and ask me to come in for a meeting. We’ll chat about the project (they usually send a script for me to respond to), and if they like what I have to say and feel we’ll work well together, then I guess that’s when the offers happen.

DAMIAN: When your agent sends you a script, what sort of material are you looking for and are there any genres that you find particularly interesting?

KATE: No, I don’t like to restrict myself to one genre or another. That’s why I’ve had such an eclectic career. I get bored easily and am far happier and achieve the most when I’m juggling several projects at once (my normal status quo). So, as long as the writing is good – and I think it’s a story worth telling, I’m invested.

Having said that, I’m definitely drawn to the ‘mess’ of humanity – the moments we cross a line or feel something unexpected. I’m not so keen on ‘clean’ or neat in terms of psychology in characters. The more complex the better, therefore.

DAMIAN: Did your background in directing theatre and opera have anything to do with you getting the job to direct your first Endeavour film, ZENANA, which of course, featured those magnificent sequences in the Venice opera house?

KATE: Yes, I’m sure it did. I met with Helen Ziegler (then Exec) and Jim Levison (then Producer) and we talked about the script for two hours. I remember Helen being very pleased to hear about my time working in opera and theatre. For me, that script was ideal! A rare chance to combine all my creative loves at once.

DAMIAN: Which departments do you collaborate with most closely during the pre-production stage in designing a visual plan for each film?

KATE: You really do need to collaborate closely with every department in pre-production. TV is a group effort. No one can do their best work in isolation. Good communication, and making sure my ‘vision’ (though I hate that word, sounds so pretentious!) is clear for all, is paramount, so that all departments have a direction to work on. And that ‘vision’ is in turn, about realising the writer’s intentions and working out how best to achieve that, alongside taking on board the overarching intentions of the Execs, in terms of their ambitions for the series.

It’s important to share your thoughts with the department heads early: bandying around ideas and inspirations with the Designers and DOP is a privilege. It’s also important to be responsive (and to respond quickly to queries), so as to enable the person asking the question to move on with their work. This is of utmost importance.

The visuals begin with the Location Managers and location hunting. Whenever I see somewhere that’s interesting, I’ll want Mad [Madelaine Leech], Designer, to come too – see if she feels it’ll work for her. The 1st AD and DOP will ideally come too. So right from that early on, we’re working as a team; imagining and conjuring together.

At the same time, I’ll be working with the Casting Director on ideas for the guest cast and we’ll hold auditions. Within a couple of weeks, it’s time to work with the Costume Designer too, looking at their idea boards, chatting about how we see the characters. The Make Up Designer will often attend those meetings too.

And of course work on the script is ongoing right through pre-production (and the shoot more often than not!). New drafts, rewrites. Notes. Discussing ideas and character arcs. So you also need to constantly adjust your plans according to script changes – and to ensure the team knows about any planned changes too.

The Design team is the busiest in terms of meetings to attend and emails I need to respond to: we have ‘page turn’ meetings, where I sit with the whole design department and we go through all design, set, dressing and props needs, for every scene. And there’s an unimaginable number of design emails every day, everything ranging from photos of sourced props to approve or reject, planned design and layouts of location sets to discuss, to the smallest details, such as what type-face I might want on a letter heading!

DAMIAN: In terms of camera angles and setups, how much of this is pre-planned and to what extent do they typically need to change on the day of filming?

KATE: For me, they’re not massively pre-planned. What I will do, is to create a shotlist that’s a brief bullet list of what shots I feel each scene needs. If I want a crane or drone or anything ‘extra’ like that (car mounts etc), then I need to make that decision early on, so that the equipment is booked and the time is allowed in the schedule.

I revisit my shotlists for the next day, the night before each shoot day, and invariably change it! Some directors love to storyboard everything and have a clear and set plan. That’s not for me. I think it’s because I come from a theatre background, so my strengths are in curating and leading in an ensemble environment – the fascinating job for me is in how to make the most of every cast member and every team member on that set. If you like, it’s effectively how to unlock the collective imagination and steer it on one course.

This approach means I do, of course, need a very clear head, and to know the script inside out, along with what I want to achieve from a scene. I’m a very decisive person. Annoyingly so, sometimes, I imagine. But this means I’m secure in my tastes and therefore not concerned that many voices will distil my ‘take’ in a negative way: I’m lucky in that it means I can quickly take on board the great offers, whilst also explaining why others don’t fit with the way I want to present the story, without finding the input distracting.

DAMIAN: Incidentally, does shooting on location – especially in bustling Oxford – require more intricate pre-planning and is it significantly less problematic to film in a studio?

KATE: Not for me, really. It does for the locations, design and assistant director teams! Of course there are issues such as crowd control when we’re filming in a busy part of Oxford, say. But for me, location shooting wins over studio sets every time. The possibilities tend to be greater. So, if anything, locations tend to unlock more opportunities. When you’re in a standing set, it can feel tough to find interesting shots when you’re just in a box.

DAMIAN: Which stage of a production do you find most artistically rewarding or challenging: pre-production, the actual shoot or post-production?

KATE: Honestly, all three in different ways. Pre-production can be where the most rewarding work happens on the script or on finding the perfect actor for a role. The shoot is where the magic happens. Then the edit and post is where you get to sculpt it. It’s amazing how much you can restructure the way you choose to tell a story in post-production.

DAMIAN: Is there an implicit understanding that a director working on an Endeavour film should remain consistent with the visual style of the “Morse Universe” or are they encouraged to pursue their own visual aesthetics?

KATE: The latter. Damien [Timmer], Exec, has always loved the Eps that have a strong individual style. And Russ [Lewis], has written such brilliant and wide ranging stories. Russ has an excellent ear for dialogue and a sharp and insightful brain – it’s always a great challenge trying to keep up with him.

In terms of different aesthetics with which to shoot these scripts, last year, for example, when I had a story to tell [TERMINUS] that was set in a haunting shut up hotel and demanded lots of snow, it was abundantly clear that a different approach was needed. It had elements that owed a lot to Agatha Christie, others to noir, or thriller genres.

Alongside this freedom, there are always nods to Morse. My final Ep of Endeavour, (and the final Endeavour Ep ever of course!), has a scene that owes a lot to Morse, even down to me emulating some shots and in the use of supporting artists at a key moment. I can’t say what it is, but it’ll be interesting to see if the fans spot it. 

DAMIAN: Is it purely coincidental that you’ve directed ZENANA, TERMINUS and EXEUNT which are all the third and final films of series 7, 8 and 9 respectively?

KATE: No, when I first came on board with the Mammoth team, it just happened to be the final Ep of the series that I was offered. From then on, it made sense to keep it that way. I like getting to wrap up all the juicy stories and get some ‘big numbers’ to stage!

DAMIAN: What was it like working with Matt on the Opera sequences for ZENANA and his scores for Endeavour more generally?

KATE: Wonderful. Matt and I really interrogate the story and intentions. He loves me to talk him through what my goals are for the film overall, as well as how I see the character journeys and obstacles. He likes to respond to what I have to say as well as what he sees – it’s a combination of his responses as a viewer (what touches him when he watches the Final Cut) – and how I want to steer it. ZENANA was especially exciting because he wrote an original short opera for the piece, which Russ wrote the libretto for.

Matthew Slater’s cameo
Matt and Kate

DAMIAN: Which one of Russ’ scripts has surprised you the most?

KATE: Last year’s episode [TERMINUS]. It was dark and quirky! It also had elements borrowed from Carry On films (alongside the influences I mentioned above). Russ loves, loves, loves, drawing from all sorts of literary and film sources and writing nods to them in Endeavour. I swear I miss more of them than I catch!

DAMIAN: I’m a great admirer of Anton and consider him to be one of our very finest actors and so I was absolutely shocked when he told me that he didn’t know how to play the scene where he hears about the death of his wife in ZENANA, but apparently you reassured him that he absolutely could. Can you tell me any more about this from your perspective as a director and describe your approach of putting actors at ease in order to get the best possible performance from them – especially, when quite often, the shooting schedule doesn’t always allow for much time to rehearse?

KATE: Firstly, Anton is, as you say, the most exquisite and truthful actor. He handled that moment brilliantly. Anton is quite right when he said he didn’t know how to play it: he was open about that with me, as he says in your interview. That was because Bright is quite a closed book in terms of his emotional life, so Anton queried whether he should bat the truth of it away – almost be angry at the revelation at first. I suggested that rather than do that, he just allow Bright to try to listen to what he was being told… to truly hear it, whilst being aware this would be extraordinary news to hear, and therefore difficult to take in. That rather than battle it, he could try to comprehend it, through a defensive wall that was trying its best to suppress it. It’s that juxtaposition between the hidden inner emotions and the outer resolve that’s so painful and truthful.

And I did tell him he absolutely knew how to do that. Because Anton is one of the most emotionally open and brave actors I’ve ever worked with. So much so, he’s like the lightest touchpaper – utterly responsive. You’d never want to give a generalised or ill-thought-through note to Anton. If you earn his trust, he’ll take whatever suggestions you offer him. Therefore, as a director, your suggestions really count, so they’ve got to be good!

And you’re right about time: we didn’t have any rehearsal time for that scene ahead of the shoot. This was all done in a few discreet conversations on set. A huge part of my job as a director is to reassure an actor that they can reach the most nebulous or challenging emotional moments of their character’s journey. To do that, they must feel safe and must be able to trust me. They’re the one in front of the camera, so it’s really important to me that they know I have their back.

That means me understanding their characters well and making astute observations about how a moment might land. In a nutshell, it means me doing my homework. Actors can sniff out a director’s lack of knowledge in a nanosecond.

It also means offering notes and suggestions when they need them and keeping quiet when they don’t. It means listening to them and being their ‘performance confidante’ in a sense, i.e. someone they can bounce ideas off and who they’re not afraid will judge, so they can try anything.

Additionally, it means giving them time and not rushing. This last statement is the hardest to achieve on a TV set, when the clock is ticking. A good 1st AD is our ally in that, as they’ll often schedule tricky emotional scenes early in the day, in order to try to avoid that end of day rush.

DAMIAN: Why do you think you were given the honour of directing the final Endeavour film?

KATE: It IS a great honour, isn’t it? I imagine it must be because Mammoth, Russ, Shaun and Rog, were happy with what I’d done before… I certainly hope so.

DAMIAN: And was there any additional pressure for you given the expectations of a huge and devoted fanbase who’ve watched and loved these characters for a decade?

KATE: Yes, absolutely. Having worked with the cast for 3 seasons, I knew how much care they have for serving their characters well. Especially for Shaun and Roger, knowing that Morse never mentions Thursday again, meant they felt a huge responsibility to tell the story of why that could be, with integrity and heart. They’re both brilliant actors and collaborators, so we talked a lot about how we would sculpt that story; what their emotional truth was. I’m honoured they’ve trusted me these last three years and let me join with them in partnership.

Damien and Russ also felt the pressure of how to close the series faithfully. So it meant there was a lot of discussion about what the script should be. It also meant we deliberately left the script overlong for the shoot, so that we had options in the edit. This meant shooting fast, when of course I’d have loved a luxurious shoot where I felt I had time to really craft something special. Every director of course wants that! It was more a case of hit the ground running and never breathe, pause or look back until it was in the bag… Directing TV drama is always such a whirlwind, that I never quite know whether it’s marvellous or a big old mess by the end.

In fact, the truth is probably bits of each. Then you try to curate that well in post production until it’s cohesive and impelling. That’s the aim. Ultimately, we just have to hold our breath and wait to see what the viewers think.

DAMIAN: Kate, thank you very much indeed.

KATE: Thank you for asking such great questions!

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2023

THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2023: SARA VICKERS

ENDEAVOUR: Marry me.

JOAN: That’s not funny.

ENDEAVOUR: It wasn’t meant to be.

JOAN: I know. You were being nice. I don’t want pity. I couldn’t live with that. Never mind what Dad would say…

– HARVEST (S4:E4)

An exclusive Endeavour interview with Sara Vickers

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2023

DAMIAN: Sara, I’m thinking back to when Russ told me he knew that Joan and Endeavour would fall for each other the moment she first opened the front door to him in FUGUE (S1:E2) and everything that has happened to your character since then including being taken hostage during the bank robbery, running away from home, being a victim of domestic violence, suffering a miscarriage and getting entangled in an on-again, off-again relationship during which she and Endeavour ultimately broke each other’s hearts. Even though she didn’t want his pity during that scene in HARVEST, do you think there might have been the briefest of moments when Joan considered saying yes to Endeavour when he asked her to marry him?

SARA: That moment in HARVEST really encapsulates the essence of why Joan and Morse haven’t got together. What he should have said to her was those three magic words, “I love you.” I think if he had, we would have travelled a different path. To be offered marriage out of the blue, in such an emotionally turbulent moment, left her, I think, unable to process the proposal. It was clumsy of Morse. And if he was serious, he should have followed it up, fleshed out where it came from.

DAMIAN: And I wonder if there was ever a moment’s hesitation before Joan accepted Strange’s marriage proposal?

SARA: We have talked a lot about this during the filming of season 9. The hesitation. The feeling of something being unfinished. With Morse being absent from Oxford, again, I think the decision to get engaged was definitely easier and a positive one. A step in the right direction. She desperately needed to move her life forward. Strange has given her the chance of a new future. But Morse is always in her thoughts. I know he would have been a part of the decision process for her. And I think you can definitely see that hesitation in episode 2. He’s always been an enormous pull for her. Shutting that door for good will be painful.

DAMIAN: After not seeing each other for some time, Endeavour speaks to Joan at Belmont Lodge, the halfway house for mothers and their children, in STRIKER (S8:E1) and Russ’ directions read: ‘Endeavour alone for a moment. Through the window, Joan up the garden for the moment with some of the kids. He could be looking out of the window of his own house at his wife and kids. It’s a thought that might have stung once, now it’s just a dull ache.’ Away from the aforementioned scene in HARVEST, to what extent do you think Joan ever seriously considered the possibility of marrying Endeavour and having kids with him, and at what point did she become more realistic and arguably mature enough to abandon any such dreams?

SARA: Every little look and moment they’ve shared have been thoughts of ‘could we?, should we….?’. And those thoughts for Joan, were always thoughts of ‘could we make this work for the long haul, marriage and kids.’ Even though she rebelled when she ran away from home, I think she ultimately wants what her mum and dad have, true love and a family. These dreams have become faded and less frequent however. As time goes on it is hard to keep yearning.

DAMIAN: During the same scene in STRIKER and in reference to vulnerable mothers, Endeavour observes that Joan is ‘Saving the world’ and she replies, ‘One woman at a time.’ Looking back over all these years now, what was most fun for you to play as an actor, the young and playful kind of cute girl next door figure that we met in the first series or the stronger and more empowered woman we have come to know in these last few series?

SARA: Hmmm, good question… I think I’ve been getting quite nostalgic for the early days. I loved the carefree girl next door…early 60s outfits, beehives – though I don’t miss the backcombing and buckets of hairspray! – and flirting and teasing Morse. There was a playful simplicity.

DAMIAN: I know from reading various drafts of the scripts over the years that certain scenes were cut and some of these involved Joan and Strange. One particular scene that I remember reading years ago was where she kisses him on the cheek as they say goodnight – in the version that made it to the screen it was after their date at the Masonic Lodge Ball in SCHERZO (S8:E2) and Strange says, ‘Blimey, I won’t wash my face for a week now’. Therefore, Russ must have been planning this storyline for a long time so although there were strong hints during series 8, at what point were you made aware of the collective romantic fates of Joan, Strange and Endeavour, and what was your reaction?

SARA: I think I was told by Shaun Evans in a read-through for an earlier season. Perhaps 4 or 5? At the time I couldn’t see how it was going to come about. My biggest concern was wanting to have an ending for Joan that felt organic and not rushed or too contrived. Scenes were cut between Strange and I, as dramaturgically, it was agreed it was moving too fast; we had to find that balance of making it fully fleshed out but also interesting story telling.

DAMIAN: Back in NOCTURNE (S2:E2) which was set in 1966, Joan and her friend go on a double date with none other than Endeavour and Strange! With the benefit of hindsight, do you think that Russ knew even back then that Joan and Strange would one day become romantically involved?

SARA: I think season 2 may have been a little early to know, as Russ had only just decided Joan and Morse were going to become emotionally involved. So I reckon that may have just been coincidence.

DAMIAN: And again, retrospectively, isn’t it quite interesting to recall your response and consider you were at least half right in answering a similar question I asked you previously regarding the possible future of Joan and Endeavour when you answered, ‘Well, we know there will be no white wedding.’? 

SARA: Well that was the biggest obstacle to the Joan and Morse romance, Morse’s fate was already set in stone. But it’s wonderful that the audience keeps willing them to get together even though they know how it ends.

DAMIAN: In addition to her relationships with both Endeavour and Strange, it might also be interesting to remember that Joan went out on a date with Peter Jakes in HOME (S1:E4). All three are obviously policemen who were under the command of her policeman father. What do you think a psychoanalyst might have to say about all this?

SARA: Haha! I think they would have a field day! She never ventured very far from her Dad’s workforce. But I guess there is something she likes about a policeman. She knows the positives and negatives of life as a policeman. And there is obviously something she admires about a man in that line of work.

DAMIAN: You once used the word ‘intrigued’ to describe Joan’s attraction to Endeavour and continued that, ‘She is not one for the ordinary and Endeavour appears to be everything out of the ordinary. They have something they can’t put their finger on. But surely that’s the best kind of attraction – the indescribable.’ In comparison, I’m intrigued to know how you would describe her attraction to Strange?

SARA: I think the intrigued, indescribable quality that Morse showed, started to feel to Joan like emotionally unavailable. Always putting his work first, or so it seems to her. We see him not appear at the pub in episode 2, UNIFORM. I think she knows that would be her life. Forever coming second. Strange on the other hand, is upfront and is there at the drop of a hat. In the season 8 finale [TERMINUS] when they can’t find brother Sam, he provides the support that Morse can’t. He’s there when she needs someone and there is something very powerful in giving your time.

DAMIAN: Discussing the character development of Strange over the years, Sean Rigby told me that in the 60s he was ‘very much trying to find himself [and that] he is very sure of where he wants to go in the world but is still unsure of his footing within it’ and in another interview with him regarding the 70s, said he was ‘Harder. Tougher. Self-assured. He’s his own man now.’ What effect do you think Joan has had on this harder, tougher and more self-assured Strange?

SARA: I think most positive romantic relationships only add to someone’s feelings of security and self worth which in turn bolsters confidence and a sense of ease in the world. Joanie would always be championing Jim personally and professionally. But the initial change in Strange was already in motion before she came on the scene, and was definitely a factor in why she started looking at him in a different way. I think Sean has charted that change in his character beautifully over the years. Watching his work in series 9, Strange is a different man from the early episodes. 

DAMIAN: And from “Brother Strange” to her own actual brother, Sam, what was it like being reunited with Jack Bannon once again?

SARA: So wonderful. He’s a joy to be around and a fabulous actor. We couldn’t have wrapped up the show without him. We reminisced about the early days of filming. We lived in the same area of London for the first few series so we used to get picked up together and have lovely chats. I missed him not being around these last few years.

DAMIAN: Can you describe your emotions and thoughts as you filmed your final scenes and said goodbye to the cast and crew you’ve worked with for over a decade?

SARA: Filming the final series was an altogether surreal experience. I had just given birth six weeks prior to my first day, so emotionally and physically I had been through significant changes. Having my baby with me on set was wonderful but as you can imagine didn’t allow me to dwell too much on the finality of it all. I’m sure this was a good thing as I would have been a teary mess!

DAMIAN: Looking back at all the episodes over the years, do you have a favourite or a particular scene that you are most proud of as an actor?

SARA: Oh goodness. So many moments I could pick out. Again, as I’m getting nostalgic about everything, I think I would have to go for the date with Jakes in HOME. That was when I found Joan. Her true character. And I think Shaun and I found something in that scene when Morse walks her home, that stood the test of time.

DAMIAN: My final question, if Joan was a real person and a good friend of yours in real life, what romantic advice would you have given her in 1965 when she first started flirting with Endeavour?

SARA: He’s never going to tell you what you want to hear. You either need to take the lead and be okay with that or cut your losses and save yourself years of heartache.

DAMIAN: Sara, in addition to Endeavour and Strange, Joan has also stolen the hearts of countless viewers around the world with your thoughtful, sensitive and perfectly charming performance. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on Joan in this and previous interviews over the years.

SARA: Thanks so much Damian, it’s been a pleasure. I was given a wonderful gift the day I was cast as Joan Thursday. I will be forever grateful for the opportunity and for all the love and support the fans have shown her over the years.

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2023

‘It was the view I fell in love with… You can’t see from there. Come closer.’
‘This is as close as I get.’ PASSENGER (S5:E3)

THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2023: SEAN RIGBY

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2023

Little acorns and strange bedfellows

An exclusive Endeavour interview with Sean Rigby

DAMIAN: There was both good and bad news back in 2012. The bad news was that you didn’t get a part in Lewis, but the good news was that you did get a part in Endeavour. Thinking back to when you first received that telephone call from your agent saying that you had landed the role of Jim Strange and you performed an impromptu Irish jig on the Barons Court tube station platform, did you ever think that you’d still be playing him a decade later?

SEAN: I can honestly say I hadn’t a clue as to just how long I’d be playing Jim Strange, and what a hugely important part of my life it would become. 

DAMIAN: But did you have any idea – or at least your own personal hopes – of how long the show would continue for?

SEAN: With it being my first job, I didn’t have a clue about how the industry worked from a production standpoint, or the criteria it would have to meet in order to be longstanding and successful. I hoped at the time it would at least run for a few years. 

DAMIAN: And how did you feel when it was confirmed that this would be the final series?

SEAN: It was bittersweet. It could never last forever and it seemed like a good moment for it to stop. The overwhelming feeling was one of gratitude to have been part of something so loved.

DAMIAN: In our original interview, you described Strange as having something of the Auguste clown about him and I wondered – as the series has gradually become frequently darker and Strange more serious – if you missed playing the more obvious comedic aspects to the character?

SEAN: I would argue that a lightness persists in Strange, even in the dark times. If anything, it’s been nice to have more of the serious stuff to do to counterbalance that. 

DAMIAN: Although, wasn’t it amusing to see poor Strange not knowing where to put his face during the scenes at the nudist hotel last series?

SEAN: Certainly was! I didn’t know where to look either. And it was bloody cold that day, so fair play to the supporting artists and cast.

DAMIAN: Even though I still miss his legendary tank tops of yesteryear, I’m mostly hoping that we’ll get to see Strange play the trombone one last time or does he still just keep the instrument under his desk for emergencies only?

SEAN: Yes, in a glass box with a tiny hammer. I’d like to think the trombone is heavily implied throughout all scenes in CID.

DAMIAN: And in RAGA (S7:E2) we are treated to the unexpected sight of Strange wearing a pinny, holding a cookbook and learning the culinary arts! Were we ever to be invited to dine with Strange, what specialty might he prepare for us?

SEAN: Funnily enough I enjoy cooking myself and love collecting cookbooks. I have an original Galloping Gourmet cookbook, published in 1972. Leafing through that, and this is a genuine recipe, I think he might have a bash at ‘Fairfield flounder fillets and legal sauce’.

Photo provided by Sean Rigby

DAMIAN: Discussing the character development of Strange over the years, you told me before that in the 60s he was ‘very much trying to find himself [and that] he is very sure of where he wants to go in the world but is still unsure of his footing within it’ and in our last interview regarding the 70s, you said he was ‘Harder. Tougher. Self-assured. He’s his own man now.’ What effect do you think Joan Thursday has had on this harder, tougher and more self-assured Strange?

SEAN: I think if anything she has galvanised his determination and ambition. It’s all about looking after Joanie, who is also very supportive of him. 

DAMIAN: I know from reading various drafts of the scripts over the years that many scenes were cut and some of these involved Strange and Joan. One particular scene that I remember reading years ago was where she kisses him on the cheek as they say goodnight – in the version that made it to the screen it was after their date at the Masonic ball at the Lodge in SCHERZO (S8:E2) and Strange says, ‘Blimey, I won’t wash my face for a week now’. Therefore, Russ has obviously been planting these little acorns for a long time but when were you first made aware that this was one of the directions your character would be taking and what was your initial reaction to having the opportunity of exploring the less serious side of him again?

SEAN: I think it was as early as series two that somebody in production said to me ‘oh of course, Strange gets together with Joan.’ I thought ‘Really?’ – I don’t think we’d even had a scene together at the time, and had only met Sara at read-throughs. It became apparent over the last couple of series, the direction their relationship was taking, and it was exciting to get to work with Sara on some great scenes. 

DAMIAN: Endeavour and Strange went on a double date way back in 1966 during the episode NOCTURNE (S2:E2) – and let’s not forget that one of the girls was Joan. I asked you in a previous interview why Strange had never been out with a girl since then and you said that he was ‘Too busy for dates.’ What changed Strange’s mind?

SEAN: I don’t think anything changed his mind particularly. I think it was just fate, or happenstance. He had a spare ticket to the masonic ball, and there she was.

DAMIAN: I must say that the scenes with Strange and Joan last series were amongst my personal highlights of the three episodes. The two really do have an extraordinary – if somewhat unexpected – chemistry together, don’t they?

SEAN: That’s very kind of you to say. I can only doff my cap to Sara for being such an excellent, generous scene partner, and to Russ, for giving us such lovely scenes to work with. 

DAMIAN: Which of the following would you say have contributed most to the man Strange is today: the tragic events at Blenheim Vale in NEVERLAND (S2:E4), the death of George Fancy in ICARUS (S5:E6), the influence of his friends at the Lodge, getting seriously injured by the stabbing in ZENANA (S7:E3), his relationship to Joan Thursday or simply his own determination to climb to the top?

SEAN: I know it’s a cop out, but, all of them. These are the events in life, good and bad, that make a person. He is the sum of his experience.

NEVERLAND
ICARUS
ZENANA

DAMIAN: I thought the scene in ZENANA was interesting where Strange and Max almost take on the shared role of parents when Endeavour and Thursday are squabbling by the canal at the Towpath Killer scene of the crime and Strange says: ‘That’s the face we want to show the world now, is it? Washing out our dirty smalls in front of respected friends and colleagues. God almighty, what’s the matter with you? Well… I hope you’re both pleased with yourselves.’ Strange wouldn’t have dared to raise his voice and say these words before?

SEAN: I don’t think he’d ever been given cause to. We deal with a lot of dead bodies, so it would be easy for us as an audience to forget the solemnity of standing over the deceased. Their squabbling was unacceptable and they rightly got a bollocking from Max and Strange.

ZENANA

DAMIAN: If Strange met Endeavour in 1965 and the last Inspector Morse episode was in 2000, that means they will have known each other for 35 years which must be their longest continuous friendship. However, now you’re able to look back on their complicated relationship from 1965 to 1972, how do you think it has evolved across those first seven years?

SEAN: If it’s possible, they’ve simultaneously grown closer and further apart.

Endeavour and Strange meet for the first time in GIRL (S1:E1)
The odd couple living together in MUSE (S5:E1)

DAMIAN: In terms of bringing closure to your interpretation and portrayal of the character at least, what were you hoping to find in the last three scripts and how does the Strange at the final stages of Endeavour compare to James Grout’s introduction in Inspector Morse?

SEAN: I was hoping for there to be a happy ending for Jim, I thought he deserved it. In terms of bridging the gap, I think we see Strange well on his way up the ladder.

DAMIAN: Referencing the older Strange of the novels, I mentioned chocolate biscuits in our first interview, and you told me that your personal favourite was the Garibaldi. Now, in SCHERZO, Strange says the following: ‘I’ve conducted some odd interviews in my time, matey. But stone me, this morning’s go takes the Garibaldi.’ Art imitating life, perhaps?

SEAN: Given that Russell might have the broadest range of reference I think I’ve ever encountered, it doesn’t seem too unlikely that the contents of these interviews might make their way into the script somehow. 

DAMIAN: In comparison to Endeavour or Thursday, Russ once told me that in Riggers’ hands, Strange is ‘a wonderful everyman.’ Do you think this might be why so many of the men in the audience relate to Strange more than other male lead characters in the show?

SEAN: If they do then that could possibly be why. I think characters like Strange are important, not everyone is incredibly witty or brave or brilliant. I think if we’re honest with ourselves, given the situations that Oxford’s Finest find themselves in, most of us would be stood scratching our head, brows furrowed. 

DAMIAN: Do you have a favourite episode of Endeavour or is there a scene that you think perfectly sums up Strange as a character?

SEAN: I think the scene from a few series back where Strange pops round to Morse’s house, interrupting his evening with Ludo, is fairly illustrative of the type of person Jim Strange is. Even though he’s come round to give Morse a ticking off, he’s decent enough not to do it in front of his friend, going so far as to make small talk with the rather aloof character that is Ludo.

ORACLE (S7:E1)

DAMIAN: Can you tell me about filming your final scene as Strange and what it was like saying goodbye to a cast and crew that you’ve worked with over the last decade?

SEAN: Truth be told, all I can remember was that it was in CID. Everything else is a bit of a blur. I wouldn’t count myself as a particularly sentimental person, indeed I didn’t shed a tear on the day, but rather like I said earlier, I’ve felt an enormous sense of gratitude and kinship with all involved. It’s been a real honour. 

DAMIAN: Brother Rigby, it has been my honour to do these interviews with you over the years so thank you very much indeed. I wish you all the very best and hope that all your future roles will inspire more impromptu Irish jigs – Cheers, matey!

SEAN: Thanks Damian, your support throughout has been greatly appreciated. Mind how you go. 

~

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2023

THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2023: RUSSELL LEWIS PART III

Interview and introduction (‘Drinks at the Randolph’) copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2023

Drinks at the Randolph

THE MORSE BAR at the Randolph Hotel is quite small but comfortably intimate. This is particularly the case if you are fortunate enough to find an unoccupied table by the glorious, open stone fireplace which dominates the room. Although it may be tempting to simply glance across from your drink and bask in the warmly lit interior, admiring the classic elegance of the decor with its wood-panelled walls and some of the pleasingly familiar and really rather appropriate burgundy furnishings, it would be a crime not to look up occasionally to appreciate the arched ceiling with its ornate cornices and splendid chandeliers.

However, Colin Dexter could be forgiven for taking the Neo-Gothic grandeur of the hotel in his stride since the place must surely have felt like something of a second home to him, although, it is almost impossible to imagine that the author could resist becoming somewhat reflective during visits such as these given that so many of his books and their television adaptations include scenes which are set within those majestic walls. Of course, it would be pure speculation to suppose that Colin recalled that fanciful wet Saturday afternoon in 1972 while on holiday in a little guest house located somewhere between Caernarfon and Pwllheli, when he began writing the first of his thirteen novels and various short stories which introduced a certain ill-tempered detective with a fondness for real ale, opera and crosswords.

And, if Colin had in fact indulged in a little nostalgia regarding his life and achievements as an author, who could blame him? In addition to the aforementioned best-selling books, the many reprints and omnibus editions, there was, of course, also the phenomenal success of the television series, Inspector Morse, which ran for thirty-three episodes between 1987 and 2000. Indeed, even after all these years, the much-loved and admired show remains so potent in the minds of its millions of worldwide fans that guests may well find themselves overwhelmed by a great sense of melancholy as they look out of the window of the Morse Bar on to Beaumont Street and the Ashmolean Museum opposite, not to be able to see the great John Thaw drive past in that famous Mark 2 Jaguar.

Additionally, Lewis began in 2006, in which Morse’s faithful sergeant and loyal friend finally got both a promotion and his own TV show which was another huge hit with audiences and would run for the same amount of episodes as its predecessor until it ended in 2015. Furthermore, waiting patiently in the right-hand corner of the bar on a busy evening in September of 2010, Colin was about to witness yet another spin-off of sorts although it’s probably not the one you’re thinking of. At least not quite yet.

Alma Cullen had already written four episodes of the original Inspector Morse series when she received permission from Colin to write the first stage play based on his characters. House of Ghosts, a play-within-a-play, opens with a performance of Hamlet, in which the actress playing Ophelia suddenly dies mid-performance. Morse, played by Colin Baker – most famous as the sixth Doctor Who – is immediately at the scene of the crime having been in the audience and so begins the whodunnit. Colin Dexter was in town that evening to see the play at the New Theatre although there was also some other quite important business for him to attend to first.

Writer Russell Lewis – who protests that he never set out to major in crime despite the overwhelming evidence in his CV to the contrary – and Damien Timmer, joint managing director of the Mammoth Screen production company, had first worked together on one of the later Inspector Morse episodes, The Way Through the Woods, in 1995 with Russell adapting Colin’s novel of the same name and Damien acting as script editor. Damien also performed the same duties a couple of years later on the crime series, Heat of the Sun, which was written and co-created by Russell. Due to the difference in time zones as the production was shot in Zimbabwe, the two often found themselves – first at the Runnymede Hotel, on the banks of the River Thames, and later at Bray Studios, Windsor – working through or at least deep into the night. It was a fairly challenging and chaotic production and as close as one ever might wish to get to the “Heart of Darkness”. Despite “the horror”, Russell and Damien spent most of their time laughing like drains – or the madmen they had become.

Meanwhile, Michele Buck, who would later become the other co-founder of Mammoth Screen, was also working out of Bray and one day, in a little portakabin on the studio lot at about wine o’clock on a Friday afternoon, Damien introduced her to Russell and the three seem to have got on famously. While Damien and Michele would become a formidable duo in ITV, sweeping all before them – at Central, then United, and finally at ITV Studios, with a veritable litany of hit shows between them before launching the independent Mammoth Screen together, Russell became involved with the two once again on Lewis – writing the story for the first episode and returning to script later episodes – and that’s what led them to ask if he would be interested in writing this new project that Colin Dexter had been waiting ever so patiently to talk about at the Morse Bar.

Having travelled up by train from London Paddington, Michele and Russell, along with his development script editor, Tom Winchester who had also worked on Lewis, arrived at the Randolph Hotel around either five or six but certainly early evening. After shortly stopping to admire Colin’s Cracking Cryptic Crosswords guidebook which was proudly displayed in one of the glass cabinets by the reception desk, the four of them sat down and ordered champagne. Indeed, there was much to celebrate; Colin had read Russell’s script for what was originally referred to as Young Morse – a prequel to Inspector Morse that would celebrate twenty-five years since the broadcast of the first Morse episode, The Dead of Jericho – and Colin gave his blessing there and then.

Shortly afterwards, walking only a few minutes away from the hotel to the New Theatre, Colin, Michele, Tom and Russell, met with Christopher Burt (producer of Inspector Morse, Lewis and so many other iconic British television shows) and that other Lewis, Kevin Whatley. Finding their seats and waiting for the performance of House of Ghosts to begin, as the lights went down, this was perhaps the first opportunity for Russell to take a moment and reflect that Endeavour was actually going to happen; Inspector Morse would be properly celebrated for its Silver Anniversary in 2012. A few years later in my first interview with him, Russell recalled the events of that evening with great deference:

‘Funny – I haven’t thought about that day a great deal since, but it was life-changing in its way. When you’re at the coalface every thought is about the production, and you have some pretty torrid times one way and another. It’s ridiculously easy under Wartime Conditions to forget how fortunate one is. Not to take it for granted, but sometimes only to see the problems you’ve got to solve. And then you go – wait a minute, this really is as good as it gets. We’ve got this amazing sandbox, brilliant collaborators, and you get to spend the best part of each year actually telling new stories about Colin’s beloved character.

Endeavour, Fred Thursday and the rest of Oxford’s Finest really seem to have connected with the audience – which is lovely. They invite us into their homes, both here and around the world. From the City of Dreaming Spires to the world – the reach of thing is staggering. And all of this is happening because of that evening at the Randolph Hotel when Colin gave us his blessing and entrusted us with his creation.’

And so, that is how it all began. Sadly, however, after 10 years of conducting well over 60 interviews with the cast and crew of Endeavour, I must now address how it will end and so I somewhat solemnly present my final online exclusive Q&A with Russell Lewis; bespoke writer, purveyor of fine manuscripts, and, truly, the best and wisest of men.

~

‘Beethoven had his Schindler. Haydn his Griesinger. Every artist needs his biographer. Someone to bear witness to his greatness and set it down for posterity…’

– Dr. Daniel Cronyn, FUGUE (S1:E2)

‘Hold on tightly, let go lightly.’

~ The final exclusive Endeavour interview with Russell Lewis ~

‘All right, yes, please, and thank you. All aboard for the last bus.’

-TERMINUS (S8:E3)

DAMIAN: Considering the title of the last film of the previous series, TERMINUS, as in the end of a journey, the fact that the featured bus route was number 33 which referenced not only that this was the thirty-third Endeavour film but also both Inspector Morse and Lewis ended with the same amount of episodes, plus, Sam Thursday’s senior officer, Stanhope, shared the same name with the character in the war play, Journey’s End, wasn’t it all a little mischievous and misleading?

RUSS: Perish the thought. I mean – we try desperately hard to keep our cards close to our chest in order not to spoil things for the audience. The expectation was that we would follow the lead of Inspector Morse and Lewis and call time at 33 films. But none of us on Endeavour have ever mentioned how many we might make. For years, as you know, we lived – like most shows – from commission to commission, never knowing if we would be renewed. So – there was often a kind of a ‘could end there’ note to the final film of every series. But, as I’ve said elsewhere, if we’d ended things at 33 films –then,  taken together with the previous series – it would have meant Colin Dexter losing his wicket on 99 runs. I sort of felt honour bound to see the great man back to the pavilion a centurion before bad light stopped play. And, perhaps, given the interconnectedness of the overarching story behind these last three cases, folk might view them as one thing. So.

But we couldn’t ignore people’s expectations – that this could very well be the end – hence the nods to the magic number.

DAMIAN: We mentioned Agatha Christie recently and you said that Shaun and Roger weren’t too keen on some of the tropes associated with the genre but wasn’t TERMINUS overtly Christie-esque?

RUSS: Not originally. In its first iteration, it was a straightforward slasher. The request to make it a more traditional whodunit arose from the reaction to the first draft. Sort of, ‘Nobody goes full Carpenter.’ I’ve always been taken by the device of the ‘final girl’ – and I was looking to invert that. So that was the initial jumping off point. And it sort of follows on from your previous question. I wanted to mark that 33 in some way – and as soon as I struck on it being the number of a bus, the question then becomes how do I get from that to that impossible conceit ‘the isolated community’ – whether that’s Soldier Island or Camp Crystal – how do you go about creating an isolated community in 1971 in Oxfordshire – and that leads to you to snow, and the ‘country house murder mystery’ is never far away – but of course whenever you think of snow – you inevitably think of a particularly romantic and glamorous train stuck in a snowdrift – and so it became Murder on the Luxton & District Express.

DAMIAN: To what extent did the Fontana editions of the Christie books with Tom Adams’ covers inspire the imagery for TERMINUS and last week’s film, UNIFORM?

RUSS: I don’t know about TERMINUS so much, but certainly UNIFORM. My opportunities to do such things were growing increasingly few. So… But he’s always been there. Those images. They’re sort of fetish status for me and Damien Timmer. We both adore them. Incredible things.

Some of the covers that fired and furnished young Russ’ imagination (see previous interview)

DAMIAN: The reveal that Endeavour was the drunk on the bus and the witness they’d been looking for all along was absolute genius. I don’t know if there’s a name for this kind of device where a mysterious character is hidden in plain sight, but it reminded me slightly of the identity twists of Norman Bates’ mother in Psycho, Kevin Spacey’s characters in both The Usual Suspects and Seven, and the reveal that it was young Michael Myers we see in the POV shots at the beginning of Halloween that murdered his sister.

RUSS: Well – that’s lovely to hear that it worked for you. I was worried that it might be glaringly obvious. But there we are. Phew! It would have been a problem if people had tumbled to it.

DAMIAN: And speaking of Halloween and the ‘final girl’, I know Strange and Joan won tickets to see The Carpenters in concert (STRIKER, S8:E1) but I’m wondering if it might have been more appropriate for them to see John Carpenter! Not only do we have a masked killer on the loose in this film (one of them also had the surname of Loomis), there’s also the reference to Haddonfield and am I right in thinking that Matt’s score – particularly during the snow scenes – had echoes of Ennio Morricone’s soundtrack to The Thing?

RUSS: Well, one might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb. Oh – I wouldn’t put anything past Matt Slater. But yes, you’re right, of course. As soon as you get to the hotel, things go full Cat & Canary/And Then There Were None – Harry Alan Towers second stab at And Then There Were None is set in a ski lodge, so there are nods to that, and, of course – as you rightly identified – man being the warmest place to hide. I could have happily made it a two-part story with fully one half set at the hotel. But sometimes less is more. There’s also a touch of The Cask of Amontillado going on – returning to the Rackham [Edgar Allan Poe] illustration we talked about previously.

DAMIAN: Let’s take a look at the following scene which I very much liked:

INT. THURSDAY’S HOUSE. HALL – NIGHT 3 – 0029

THURSDAY seeing DOROTHEA out… 

THURSDAY: Thanks for coming.

DOROTHEA: I’m not sure I’ve been any help at all. You want to get to the bottom of this – there’s only one person left alive knows what truly happened at Tafferton Park. And that’s Flavian Creech. Goodnight.

DOROTHEA exits.  A moment on THURSDAY — he reaches for his HAT and COAT. WIN comes into the HALL. 

THURSDAY: There’s a patient I’ve got to see at Strangmoor Hospital. It’s urgent.

WIN: Who’s this for? Morse?

(off THURSDAY)

It’s Sam you should be out there looking for. That’s who you should ‘have to’. Your own. Our son. My son. Not somebody else’s. Why aren’t you over there? I’ll tell you why. Because you’re a coward. If anything’s happened to him…  

JOAN: Mum, don’t say that.

WIN: You keep out of it! I’ll say what I please in my own house and I’ll thank you to not take sides! I’m not one of your women at your place you can talk down to. You think you know it all with your books and your courses and your ideas. And where did that get you? Leamington!

JOAN – stabbed to the heart.

JOAN: Don’t. Please…

THURSDAY: What does that mean?

WIN: Never you mind what it means.  You think cause I keep my mouth shut I walk around with my eyes closed?  Well, I don’t.  You weren’t so bloody clever there, were you? 

JOAN: No.

WIN: No! I know more about life than you ever will and don’t you forget it.  I’m your mother, and you’ll give me the respect I’m due.

(to THURSDAY)

Well, go if you’re going, then. And if you are going don’t come back. I’m sick of the sight of you.

And with that WIN heads off.

JOAN: Dad. She doesn’t mean it. It’s just…

THURSDAY: No. She does. And she’s right. Doing nothing. Bearing it. That takes a different kind of guts. I’m no good at sitting waiting. Never have been. If I could do something to help find Sam…  

JOAN: Of course, you would. She knows that. We all know that. She’s… 

THURSDAY: I’d tear the world down to see him home safe. Give my last breath. But I can’t. There’s nothing I can do. Nothing. And that’s… 

THURSDAY can’t find the words to express the existential horror contained in his powerlessness.

THURSDAY: If I can’t fix the one thing – then I’ve got to fix the other. You know how I am. Sam’s always taken after your Mum. Slow to anger and quick to forgive. But you and me? We’re… 

JOAN: I know.

THURSDAY nods. Something understood. Unspoken between father and daughter. Mutual absolution. THURSDAY dons his HAT and COAT, exits into night and snowfall. JOAN stares at the shut door – heart breaking.

CUT TO:

DAMIAN: Electrifying scene. Now, although I completely understand that Win is absolutely desperate and distraught about her son going missing, like previous misfortunes such as Thursday losing all the money he lent to his brother, isn’t she still rather cruel to both her husband and her daughter – perhaps particularly the latter?

RUSS: I think everyone’s got a breaking point.

DAMIAN: Was Win’s unkind reference to Joan’s ‘books’, ‘courses’, her ‘clever ideas’ and asking where they got her, supposed to echo the comments made by Endeavour’s mother-in-law and her sarcastic denunciation of his failure despite his ‘books and poetry’ and his ‘snooty music’ in the previous film?

RUSS: From the other end of the telescope. Any parent/child relationship – mother/daughter relationship can be… challenging. I think that’s been the thing about the Thursdays – under the magnolia painted wood-chip there have always been these massive emotional tectonic plates at work. Things not spoken about.

DAMIAN: And are the audience to assume that Thursday and Joan have never talked about the events in Leamington, including her miscarriage?

RUSS: I suspect that Thursday père had no idea that she’d even been in hospital. Win – if we imagine she knew, and I suppose we must from what she says – would have kept it from Fred. For a number of reasons. Primarily – and quite practically – so that he didn’t go around and break every bone in Joan’s fancy man’s body. Joan too – in her scene with Endeavour all those years ago, insisting her injuries were the result of ‘a fall’. In that wonderful episode title from the matchless DeadwoodA Lie Agreed Upon. That would have been her tack with Fred, had it been ever divulged. Whereas Endeavour could restrain his fury, there would have been no stopping Fred. The thing about it is – she’s selling this story about ‘a fall’ to coppers who probably weekly if not daily have in their line of work dealt with black-eyed wives and sweethearts with a propensity for walking into doors or falling down stairs.

I saw a bit of that as a boy. The aftermath at least. Not within the family – in this particular instance – but adjacent. I mean – there had been terrible and long sustained physical abuse visited on my grandmother during her first marriage in the 20s, but this was much later. The story – oddly enough – came to the fore in QUARTET. Domestic violence. We would go and visit the wife often during her regular stays in hospital. She’d have been possibly in her sixties. Given – perhaps understandably – to drink. ‘Nothing of her’ as the phrase has it. Maybe seven stone wringing wet.  I can see her now on her gurney – battered from head to foot. She looked as if she’d been in a serious car crash. Funnily enough, I’m probably more shocked looking back on it now, than I was as a boy. I can’t remember exactly how old I was – not small. Ten. Twelve. Something like that.

The husband had a prosthetic leg – I’m not sure if it was a war injury. To annoy him, or get back at him in some way – his wife would hide the prosthesis. When he found it, it would become the instrument of his violence, which is likely why his wife hid the damned thing in the first place. A quite truly awful cycle of violence. Both are long gone now, getting on for half a century. I think – probably unsurprisingly – she went first, then him some years later. The thing was everybody knew. Everybody knew. And nothing was done. Succour was lent and comfort where it was needed but there was no intervention. No police. People still patronised the business. And you’d stand on your side of the counter, and you knew – and he knew you knew – and you knew he knew you knew. And not a word was said beyond, ‘And a quarter of sherbert lemons, please.’

So – the notion that Joan might ‘have a fall’ – that was something familiar. That eyes would be averted, and if at all possible it wouldn’t be spoken of again – that too was something I knew a bit about. I think also as a mother – Win’s protecting her daughter. Protecting Joan in Fred’s eyes. Her ‘reputation’ – quote unquote. Allowing him to still think of her as she imagines he might think of her. Still ‘his little girl’ – again, quote unquote. The thought that he had somehow failed to protect her – as he would think of it – would have very likely broken him.  Win wants to somehow contain the hurt, and absorb as much of it as she can for both of them.  It tends to be what Win has always done.  She’s protecting them both.  But there’s only so much of other people’s pain one can deflect and take inside oneself before the mind and soul becomes overloaded – and Sam being missing…  She has to off-load some section of this psychic and emotional baggage she’s towing.

DAMIAN: As you wrote this scene, did you know that Jack Bannon would reprise his role as Sam Thursday and might his fate have been very different otherwise?

RUSS: We didn’t know if Jack would very graciously return. In early iterations, we assumed that he very likely wouldn’t, and the ending reflected that. Someone asked me the other day about the final film and multiple alternative endings designed to throw people off the scent. Well – there certainly were a couple of scripted endings for TERMINUS. But I think, in the end, we went with the one that you saw. But there was the potential for a much more cataclysmic ending – which we stepped back from quite late.

DAMIAN: We’ve frequently talked about art imitating life or coincidences as you call them. However, a little canary told me that Roger Allam had an Uncle Fred who fought in World War II and an Aunt Win! I like coincidence as much as the next man, but seriously?

RUSS: Yes – you couldn’t make it up, could you. I’d no idea when I named Win Win.  

DAMIAN: Hmmm. Anyway, let’s take a look at another great scene:

INT. THURSDAY’S HOUSE. HALL/LIVING ROOM – NIGHT 3 – 0403

JOAN: opens the door to STRANGE.

JOAN: Jim?

STRANGE: I did try to get you on the blower, but the lines must be down. I went by Morse’s but the place is in darkness and he’s not answering the door. So. But I wouldn’t fret. He usually lands butter side up. 

(he smiles)

So – how’s everyone? And more to the point – how are you?

That’s all it takes. One kind word. While breathes Jim Strange, the age of chivalry is not yet passed. But kindness is more than she can bear…

JOAN: I’m sorry, I just…

JOAN covers her face and breaks down. 

LIVING ROOM – WIN drawn by the sound of her daughter’s sobbing, comes to the door and looks along the HALL to see by the FRONT DOOR, JOAN buried in STRANGE’s comforting embrace as he rocks and shushes her. Both oblivious to WIN’s presence.

STRANGE: Hey! Hey, now. I got you. It’s alright. I got you. Don’t worry. There now. There, there. It’ll all be alright. I’ve got you.

And he has.

CUT TO:

DAMIAN: Strange has got her. What was Win thinking at that moment?

RUSS: I think there was little room in Win’s head for anything other than worrying about Sam. But maybe in some corner of her it registered as potentially something more than first appeared. There’s a line in John Whiting’s The Devils – the play based on Huxley’s The Devils of Loudon, later made into a remarkable movie by Ken Russell – where Grandier is talking about how he and his mistress Ninon came to be lovers. He had first come to her house to offer comfort after the death of her husband – a rich wine merchant. And he says, ‘Tears must be wiped away. How is that to be done without a caress?’

So – I kind of had that in mind. Not that anyone in their right mind would compare Strange with Urbain Grandier – but the sentiment.

DAMIAN: Can you tell me about writing the scenes at Strangmoor Psychiatric Hospital and the kind of actor you envisioned in your mind as you wrote the character of Flavian Creech and why you referenced “The Beast of Belgravia” since it was the moniker of a real-life murderer?

RUSS: Flavian Creech was a late addition, if I remember. Such was his history that it felt like he warranted a notorious sobriquet – ‘Beast of’ felt the right kind of period hyperbole, and I just landed on Belgravia at random – having cat-sat there for some months many decades ago in a flat belonging to a 1940s Hollywood starlet. I’ve just remembered that she once appeared as a guest in Morse. How mad is that? Only connect.

So – it’s just happenstance, I’m afraid. Had a real Beast of Belgravia been in my databank or on my radar I would have avoided using it. There must be between five and six-hundred names one’s either made up or snatched from the ether across the last ten years. It would be nigh on miraculous if art didn’t entirely coincidentally imitate life at some point.

Usually, compliance and neg-checking would flag such an instance – but given the sheer volume of such checks it becomes almost impossible to identify or pick-up every connection. The only thing you can rely on is that if one were aware of it, then we’d have avoided it like the plague. The last thing one ever wants to do is discomfit anyone or cause them a moment’s pain – least of all anyone with a connection to a crime in real life. Relatives or loved ones or children of the deceased – God forbid – whomever it might be.

If what one had held to be invention caused anyone the slightest upset, then I apologise wholeheartedly and unreservedly. We might take the odd pot-shot at targets inspired by real life counterparts – for example, some of the less savoury political groups that have troubled public life in these islands – but none of us would ever knowingly take aim at people who might’ve suffered or been connected to some terrible real world event. That’s not what we’re about at all. It’s a whodunit. A bit of entertainment on the television.   

DAMIAN: Of course. Anyway, just out of curiosity, who was the 1940s Hollywood starlet?

RUSS: Her name was Mildred Shay, and I believe – due to her diminutive stature – she was known in her pomp as ‘The Pocket Venus.’ She appeared, if memory serves, as one of the American tourists in The Wolvercote Tongue.

DAMIAN: Well, fan my brow! Central to solving the case is the clue about the cufflinks which marked each man out as a member of the football Pools syndicate and predicting the results. While we were discussing STRIKER (S8:E1) and football recently, you made the mistake of mentioning to me that it was a Holy ritual in your household on Saturday evenings for your old man to mark off his Pools coupon so I’m likely to read too much into it… However, if this idea wasn’t inspired by your childhood, then it must have at least brought back some very vivid memories?

RUSS: At one point, a Pools win for the Thursdays crossed my mind – but it would have been too cute. So. In all honesty, those memories are never very far away. So long as there’s football, it’ll always bring to mind ‘The Results’ and the particular vocal cadence and inflection with which they were announced. It’ll be something lost to those who never knew it, but for about ten minutes every Saturday evening vast swathes of the country stopped what they were doing to mark off their Pools. The announcer would read through the entirety of the full time results from every match in the English and Scots football divisions. Heads would be bent over coupons, pens poised, and by the way the first result was intoned, you could take a pretty reliable stab at whether what followed would be revealed as a win, a draw, or a loss. There’d be an upward inflection on the name of the Away Team – a note of surprise – if it was going to be a win. For draws, both teams names would be delivered with the same cadence. I don’t know if you can find old examples of this on Youtube, but if they are there, then they’ll bear me out.

DAMIAN: Of all the people from your childhood, who do you think would be most proud of your remarkable accomplishments as a writer?

RUSS: Most proud? I genuinely couldn’t hazard a guess. Having written anything at all that might ever have been made would have seemed so unlikely to all the family. But I was a bookish boy who ruined his eyesight reading by torchlight under the bedclothes and, when I wasn’t up the local library, spent his summer holidays filling exercise books with ‘stories’. So. Perhaps it wasn’t wholly unexpected that ‘words’ would be involved somehow. They’d all be proud, I’m sure. Not that I was writing particularly – but that I was making a living. That’s what it was all about – that generation, that class. Dependable gainful employment. The means to keep a roof over one’s head and put food on the table. I suppose, like anyone, I can say that I wouldn’t be doing what I do now if the cards hadn’t fallen in the particular order that they did. And they were all a huge part of that. Each in their way. In the deathless phrase beloved of the Sunday papers Problem Page confessional – ‘one thing led to another.’ Fate. For want of a nail…

You don’t get it at the time. Not completely. But now – from the other end of the telescope… It would have been nice to have more time with them. To have known them better as an adult.

DAMIAN: When was the first time you heard someone say, ‘Mind how you go’?

RUSS: I honestly don’t recall. It’s just one of those phrases, isn’t it, that’s always been in my Jamboree Bag of British period idiom. I’m inordinately fond of those phrases.  Something comforting about them. I suppose it’s because they remind me of where I started. It’s about class and place. ‘How’s your Bert’s lumbago?’ Such things – “Mustn’t grumble!” – serve as a sort of verbal social lubricant. When it comes to emotion, we’re not known in these damp islands to be a madly demonstrative race, but I think those nuts and bolts, seemingly inane phrases can be freighted with so much. A man such as Fred Thursday would find it infinitely easier to say ‘Mind how you go’ than ‘I love you.’  I’m not sure he’d even think that his various friendships with his colleagues fall under that category. You love your wife. Your children. But men? So – sometimes ‘Mind how you go’ will mean exactly that. And sometimes it’s a way of saying, ‘You matter to me. I care deeply about you.’ He talked recently about his men – losing three of them quite close to the end of the war. I think the feeling there between people who have stood that close to death for a long time with others – that fellow feeling, that’s love, isn’t it?  Though it’s – then at least – only deemed safe to describe as such from the other side of the veil. ‘Greater love hath no man…’

DAMIAN: The official ITV press announcement stated that the production company, Mammoth Screen, together with Shaun, Roger and yourself, had all mutually agreed that this would be the last series. Was there any doubt in your mind as to whether this was the right decision for you, the cast and crew, and also a devoted and loyal audience?

RUSS: The writing had been on the wall for some time. Along with a substantial quantity of blood. And deBryn’s beloved brain-matter. So. I could have carried on writing it quite happily until I fell off the perch – but sometimes you have to look to Kenny Rogers for a lead. It was the right time to stop. The difficulty of making a thing increases in direct proportion to its longevity. And most important of all, we didn’t want to outwear our welcome.

DAMIAN: I think it was in our very first interview that you told me you knew exactly how Endeavour would end. Has your original vision finally made it to the screen intact?

RUSS: No plan survives first contact with the enemy. But certainly some part of it made it through – after a fashion. The part that mattered. If not always a love story, it was always a story about love. Of one kind or another. Which sort of touches on your earlier question about ‘Mind how you go.’

DAMIAN: Given your writing has gained both the love of the audience and the respect of your peers, to what extent did you feel any pressure to deliver one final script that wouldn’t disappoint?

RUSS: Well – both statements probably wouldn’t stand deep interrogation, but it’s very kind of you to say and think so. Er… the main body of your question. I don’t think any of us wanted to let down an audience that’s been with us for over ten years, and beyond that, none of us wanted to do any kind of damage to the affection in which Colin’s creation is rightly held. So. No pressure. 

In all honesty, writing the yearly series finale is typically done under pretty heavy manners. You’re up against it for time, for budget, for… a multiplicity of reasons. You simply don’t have the luxury of time to allow yourself to be caught like a rabbit in the headlights. If that makes sense. It’s got to get done – so, as often as not, whatever extraneous meaning might be imparted to the thing by dint of its being ‘the last’ whatever passes one by entirely. You’re just grateful to have survived with your skin and neck more or less intact. 

You just do your best and hope that’s enough.

Of course, the curse is that one’s fated only to be aware of the things one could have done better. Or the things that for one reason or another couldn’t be delivered or realised just so – despite everyone’s best efforts. And they can and do come prowling at three a.m. – that’s if you’ve managed to get to sleep at all. It’s all you can see. But that’s the price of entry. Living with one’s manifold shortcomings. Dwell on it, and it’s a one way ticket to the laughing house. 

DAMIAN: One actor I interviewed recently said that they not only loved the script for the final episode, but it also made them cry. Can you describe your emotions as you wrote the words, ‘Roll end credits’ for the very last time?

RUSS: It would have been against an unforgiving minute, so very likely the feeling would have been one of relief. But it’s really not like Paul Sheldon typing THE END, then having his one cigarette and a glass of champagne. More’s the pity. It may be like that in publishing, but in television it really is never over until it’s locked. And truly not even then. There will be pink pages, and blue pages, and green pages, and salmon pages and goldenrod pages, and ADR… So – it’s a staggered ending that sputters to a close. You never know the point where no more will be required, so it sort of ends without you knowing the exact moment that your input has become surplus to requirements. 

I’d love to say it was a wonderful moment of fulfilment, but it was probably a much more prosaic, ‘Can I sleep now?’

DAMIAN: I know you mentioned last time that you weren’t downhearted about Endeavour coming to an end but in years to come, should you hear the Morse theme playing on the wireless, or see a burgundy or black Jaguar driving past, will you not feel sentimental or nostalgic?

RUSS: The glass is always half-full for you, Barcroft. Like Rumpole, I’ve operated on a taxi rank principle for over thirty-odd years. A hansom for hire. Or hack – depending on your point of view. So, I expect it’ll be more a feeling of, ‘I had that Morse in the back of the cab once…’

As I said previously, I’ll very likely never have a sandbox like it again. So that I’ll miss.  Working with that fantastic team of creative people. That’s the most difficult aspect of it all.  

DAMIAN: Even though you will never commit them to paper again, do you still hear the voices of Endeavour and all the other regular characters and, if so, what do they say?

RUSS: “Well, Clarice? Have the lambs stopped screaming?”  

I think I mentioned elsewhere about Stan Laurel continuing to write Laurel and Hardy material after Babe died, and that the pages were found in his desk drawer after he died. Whether that’s apocryphal or not, I don’t honestly know, but the impulse will remain, I’m sure. That particular Endeavour muscle. You don’t spend time with those characters for more than a decade and then imagine they’ll fully vacate the premises at the end of it. So – I expect they’ll be unquiet spirits who’ll haunt my heart for some time to come yet. Benevolent ones, hopefully.  

At risk of going full Norma Desmond…  I’ll miss the real people involved more than I can say. For many years we held our read-throughs at 141 Cleveland Street, Fitzrovia, an address that bears a blue plaque on the wall outside which commemorates another Morse – Samuel – the painter and inventor of the Code. Another one of those mad coincidences, but that’s by the by. Some writers may like read-throughs. I’ve always found them agony. Your heart sings a bit if a gag goes over well in the room, but mostly you’re just standing on a tightrope of insecurity over a vat of hungry crocodiles. And after the read, come the notes, and the tender evisceration and dismemberment of the draft. But…  and it’s a fairly colossal but – the atmosphere on those bright blue mornings…  The deep breath before the plunge. Team Endeavour Assemble! The joy and disbelief that comes with the recurrent realisation that one gets to do this for a job.

Those mornings, you hear it before you see it. Andy Foster – our Second AD for many years – was typically on the street, clocking and logging the arrivals. Then, as you climb the stairs, you just hear this murmuration. Seventy, eighty-odd people having conversations. And Wardrobe/Costume are running through outfits with guests. And Design have boards to show and tell. There’s hugs and hale fellow well met, and laughter. So much laughter. And by some demented twist of good fortune you have found yourself a part of this.

The monumental privilege of it.  My God.

And then the second hand sweeps round to ten o’clock and the room falls silent, and all the nonsense and the anxiety and the turmoil and the fussing and fighting just falls away, and we’re all pulling together in service of something hopefully greater than ourselves.

The pandemic put an end to that – as it put an end to so much else of far greater weight. So we never got a ‘last read’ – or rather we did, but didn’t realise it was the final time we were ever to be all gathered together in one room.

But Base remained – the dynamic of being at Production Base on a studio day.   Everyone with their part to play. Electric mayhem and marshalled chaos. Those ‘whispered conversations in overcrowded hallways’. The silence on the floor as you creep around in the shadows off camera. ‘Video Village’ – where Wardrobe/Costume and Hair and Make-Up foregather to watch the world’s tiniest monitors. The skill and craft that everyone – cast and crew – brings to the party.

Design. Sound. Lights. Props. Chippies. Sparks. Camera. Unit drivers. Catering. Runners with the thankless – and often far worse – task of ‘locking off’ roads on location – so that a modern car or pedestrian doesn’t go pootling through the back of a period shot. Our editors. The incredible work done in the post-houses. From each according to their gifts.

All of it marshalled film by film by our directors, and series by series by our producers who artfully wrangled the thing into being – Dan McCulloch; Camille Gatin; Tom Mullens; Helen Ziegler; John Phillips and Neil Duncan who went Cox and Box on Series 5; Deanne Cunningham on Series 6; Jim Levison across 7 & 8 with C. Webber Co-Pro, and finally, Charlotte Webb producing and Joe Shrubb coming in as Co-Pro on this last run of films. Got that? There will be a written paper. They have been aided and abetted across these nine series by Line Producers – the unsinkable Helga Dowie and, I think since late Series 5 or early Series 6 the unflappable Matthew Hamilton with one time First Ad Nick Brown doing a trio and Carolyn Parry-Jones running a quick single – while Betsan Morris Evans knocked one to the boundary as Post Production Producer in 2014.

I’m mindful of so many thanks that I’d like to make, but I fear it would test the patience of your readership past breaking. But I can’t let the moment pass without thanking my Script Editors – who have saved my bacon and show the show more times than you could possibly imagine. In batting order – on OVERTURE – wonderful Tom Winchester; then, the great Sam Costin who set an impossibly high benchmark, and kept me sane and alive through Series 1-3. Best beloved Drama Queen Amy Thurgood who came in to bat across Series 4-and an epically long Series 5. Lovely Paul Tester – who had the briefest tenure proper of all my companions on Series 6. Then my own sospan bach Charlotte Webber on Series 7 and sort of Series 8, though she ducked out half-way through FILM 2 to AP, when Uju Enendu stepped bravely into the breach. And then on this final run – having ascended to the Purple – Charlotte kind of wore two hats. And wore them effortlessly.

I think I said to you previously that I’ll likely never have another sandbox like this to play in again. I can’t think of anywhere else I could have done half the things we’ve attempted in Endeavour. And credit for the lion’s share of that belongs to the Mammoths. Principally, the Skipper – Drama Head Cook and Bottle-Washer Damien Timmer, has been incredibly supportive of my madnesses. Michele Buck who made so much of it happen across the early days. Rebecca Keane – and her wonderful story mind. Tom Mullens during his tenure first as producer and then as Exec.. And most recently Helen Ziegler who may just be made entirely of sunshine. Jon Williams and James Penny taking care of the Grown-Up Stuff – logistic and legal – that really never gets enough credit, but without which…

There’s one more thing without which Endeavour would never have been Endeavour, nor Morse Morse, nor Lewis Lewis – and that is the breathtaking music, a flawless blend of perfectly curated major and minor classical and operatic pieces and original scores – now over a hundred of them – a labour of love and supreme artistry originated and sustained over the best part of thirty years by Barrington Pheloung before – with his untimely passing – the world of music lost one of its brightest and most beloved sons, at which point composing duties on Endeavour were taken up seamlessly by Matthew Slater whose scores have built on and enriched that extraordinary legacy while adding to its lustre with something that has become uniquely his. For my part, I’ve had the joy of providing him with lyrics for pieces ranging from the sublime – our Venetian opera, translated into ‘old Italian’ by Nico Rosetti – to the ridiculous – a jingle to promote road safety, ‘If the Pelican Can Then So Can You!’  Surely amongst Mister Bright’s finest hours.

And then you come to the sharp end. An incredible cast assembled by Casting Director Susie Parriss that any writer would be blessed to write for. Jimmy Bradshaw brought Max’s tender humanity to life and matched it with his own, leavening even the darkest moments with good humour, restoring dignity to the dead, and bringing comfort to the living in even the most tragic of circumstances. It’s never easy to inhabit a heritage role, but such is Jimmy’s talent that he has made Endeavour’s Max all his own, while leaving any happy remembrances by the audience of Morse’s Max not only untroubled, but inarguably enhanced.

Riggers had me at ‘Hello, matey!’ – effortlessly filling those estimable boots and being always the one man you wanted to see coming round the corner in a pinch. Straight out of Drama College and straight into blue serge at Cowley nick. Sean Rigby was Jim Strange from the moment he first appeared on the casting tape in his three piece suit.  And what a fine, fine, infinitely subtle performance he’s given. Burnishing a heritage character with an additional depth and nuance that can only enrich any enjoyment of his later incarnation.

It’s impossible to imagine Bright’s journey from borderline martinet to this quietly heroic, decent man with such a soundless depth to his soul being credible in the hands of anyone but Anton Lesser. Who knew? Not me. But sometimes you see something in a performance and it makes you recalibrate your plans. I think with Anton and Bright it was there early on – and it’s his marriage and the tragedy of Dulcie, the lost child. With regard to the former circumstance, it would have been very easy to laugh at the veiled hints of his apparent cuckolding – I think in SWAY it came to the fore, though there may have been earlier nods – but Anton’s choices, ever wise, about how to deliver that material turned it into something utterly heart-breaking. I suppose it’s with PREY – after the events of NEVERLAND for which he blamed himself desperately – that one starts to see the change, which reaches its apotheosis in DEGUELLO. A man with a big hat, and an even bigger heart. Vivat Reginald! Vivat Lesser!

As to the Editrix of the Oxford Mail? There something of Ariel, that tricksy spirit, about Dorothea Frazil – a mysterious, playful quality which Abigail Thaw brought to the role right from that very first scene. Part Jiminy Cricket, part Puck, part Passepartout, with just a pinch of Cheshire Cat, but forever Endeavour’s lucky penny — turning up when least expected to lend wisdom or comfort, counsel or encouragement – often all those things at once. Our guardian angels don’t always announce themselves. It’s been a delight to write for her — as it was to write for her Dad. Beyond an abundance of talent, class and sheer presence, they share a disinclination to offer Notes on the text, a particular and admirable family trait that commends itself enormously to writers.  

Which brings me to the Thursdays. A pinch of Larkins, a touch of the Huggetts, and a gigantic slice of Coward – in inspiration at least. I suppose Private Lives and Blithe Spirit and all the witty repartee and amusing songs across the Long Weekend are how people think of him now – if they think of him at all – but The Master wrote those profoundly moving evocations of people and their lives at the other end of the social scale, which – after all – was where Coward had come from himself. I’m thinking of Bernard Miles and John Mills characters’ families in In Which We Serve, and of course the Sunday afternoon telly wonder of This Happy Breed. Celia Johnson – Dame Celia Johnson – gracing both and, of course – Brief Encounter which has been such a touchstone for Endeavour. The delivery of her speech about the Torrin – her husband’s ship — in In Which We Serve just about steals the picture out from under everyone else. Not a dry eye. So – I guess that’s where the Thursdays sprang from. Those worlds – or the last echo of the same in which one grew up in the 1960s. Those values. That decency. London Pride.

It was so lovely to have Jack Bannon back for this final run of stories. As the eponymous star of Pennyworth with such enormous demands on his time and talent it was terribly gracious and generous of him to return to Casa Thursday when he could so easily have left us twisting in the wind. A mark of the man. It’s only now just struck me how his line about how small the Thursday house seems to the returning Sam must have been a little bit the same for Jack. I’m just so touched that he came home one last time.

As for Miss Thursday – where to begin. Youth, and optimism, and courage and hope.  She was the changing times. At least my own doubtless ham-fisted and ham-splained man-splained albeit sincere attempt to have one young woman’s emotional and political evolution across the period embody a generational desire for change. Inside a whodunit show. Fools rush in… Happily, Sara Vickers’ pitch perfect, flawlessly judged performance saved my blushes, and I shall be forever grateful.

I touched on Win Thursday earlier – but whatever my subtextual intentions, which I’ve gone into at length, it’s Caroline O’Neill who has intuitively winnowed that out from dialogue and stage directions which are oftimes gnomic to say the least. But Caro has an incredible feel for identifying and expressing exactly what I’m saying with Win through what I’m not saying. Such is her skill and sensitivity, her craft and art. She also makes a mean pot of Jam.

Then there’s the man in the other hat. Neither white nor black – but usually some shade of grey. Roger Allam’s Fred Thursday – the unknown mentor before the acknowledged McNutt. I still find it impossible to believe that my suggestion to the Mammoths became a reality. That it went from seeing Rog first in a biopic about Cromwell – which blew my socks off – to that unforgettable night at The Globe at the close of the Season watching him tear up that stage for seven hours or so as Falstaff, and then to Fred. It was a force of nature up there. Staggering. And as our own Fred Thursday. Those eyes. That voice.  A gift for any writer. To have that incredible instrument at your disposal. For eleven years. Don’t pinch me just yet. I’m not quite ready to leave that dream. Always hilarious to hear Rog say how he wouldn’t have signed on if he knew how long the tour of duty was going to be. Well – the race is nearly run.

Which brings me at last to Shaun Evans – we’ve joked about it together so often that it became a kind of shorthand – I don’t know whether it’s true or just another story or bit of television legend, but – and I can’t remember how it first came up between us, or in what context, but I quoted that Adam West line to him – you know, ‘The show’s called “Batman”.’  Which, I guess originally – if it’s true – was Mr West marking his territory, and just gently reminding everyone of his place in the scheme of things.  

For the record, Shaun’s never been in the least territorial. But the fact remains, the show’s called Endeavour. He has been since we shot in 2011 the hard point upon which the ultimate and absolute weight of the enterprise has rested. That’s not to diminish anyone’s role. But for the record, if I’d been hit by a 33 bus say – the show would rightly have gone on. The same could not be said of Shaun. He’s worn that responsibility very lightly – and been incredibly resilient and good-natured. These things have a lot of moving parts made of flesh and blood and feeling and insecurity and anxiety and pride, and the days are very long – because it doesn’t just end at the end of a shooting day – most people are looking at another four or six or in extreme cases eight hours of prep for the following day’s work. Actors have lines to learn – directors need to go over the next day’s shoot – producers have to call writers and tell them that a location has fallen through, and can we have pages to cover this by first thing, or whatever it is that producers do. Seriously – producers do so much. So much. But somehow Shaun’s moved through all of that with such incredible grace, and artistry, and above all things – his has been the most sustained act of creative and personal integrity. He has lived the show to the exclusion of all things else. And now he can breathe out. But wherever he goes next and whatever he does, there will always be some corner of a domestic and foreign programming schedule that will be forever Endeavour.

Beyond cast and crew – is the Skipper, Drama Don and Chief Tusker at Mammoth, Damien Timmer whom I’ve known man and boy and worked with on and off since the mid-90s. Beyond any of us – Endeavour is his baby. He has been midwife and mother to every moment of it. Working across every aspect of production with an eye for detail that leaves ordinary mortals in the dust. And somehow he brings this level of creative interrogation to all his shows. How he finds time to eat and sleep I will never know. But it’s been an enormous privilege and a personal joy to work alongside him these past years. Partners in crime. Quite literally. And then some.  

What’s been created these past eleven years is the sum of all that expertise and care outlined above, and rightly belongs to everyone aforementioned. They magicked every frame of it into life.

There’s a beautiful notion expressed by Sondheim in ‘Finishing the Hat’ from Sunday in the Park With George which sums it up. I’d hope he’d forgive my tweaking it from first person singular to first person plural.

“We made a hat where there never was a hat.”  

That’s it.  And that’s all.

We made a hat where there never was a hat.

Who could hope to do more?

DAMIAN: After all these interviews over the years, I don’t know how to thank you – perhaps any more than you can tell me what Thursday’s Wednesday sandwich is! Instead Russ, bespoke writer, purveyor of fine manuscripts, and, truly, the best and wisest of men, I shall simply say – as we’ve done countless times before – see you down the road.

RUSS: Too kind, old man. Too kind. It’s been a pleasure. And enormous thanks are due to you for your forbearance and indefatigability across these many many years. And for giving me the opportunity to look at these stories and the process whereby they came into being with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight – which, like the other thing, always lends enchantment. Thanks for going the distance. To the end, then?

DAMIAN: To the end…

‘“Do you think I’m wasting your time, Lewis?”

Lewis was nobody’s fool and was a man of some honesty and integrity.

“Yes, sir.”

An engaging smile crept across Barcroft’s mouth. He thought they would get on well together…’

– Ever so slightly misquoted from Last Bus to Woodstock with apologies to our late friend and inspiration, Mr. Colin Dexter.

Interview and introduction (‘Drinks at the Randolph’) copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2023

THE ENDEAVOUR INTERVIEWS 2023: RUSSELL LEWIS PART I

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2023

‘Strange what one recalls…’ Despite letters home, lessons in Latin and a large collection of toy soldiers in “his early life”, it’s the vivid memory of hearing Scottish pop group, Middle of the Road’s rendition of Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep blaring out of a radio at Shepperton Studios in the summer of 1971, that Russell Lewis – the writer of all thirty-six episodes of Endeavour – chose to reminisce upon in one of our past interviews prior to the broadcast of the last series and for quite obvious reasons I suppose – ‘Where’s your mama gone?’.

In Oxford of the same year – albeit a few months earlier in 1971 – we find Detective Sergeant Endeavour Morse sat alone in a pub who, by even his standards, is particularly melancholy and drowning his sorrows. Weary and hungover, the following morning he discovers there has been a terrorist bombing at his old college of Lonsdale and also – initially presumed to be racially-motivated – the Provisional IRA have threatened to shoot the black Irish football star of Oxford Wanderers, Jack Swift, if he plays against Cowley Town in the next game. Chief Superintendent Reginald Bright orders Endeavour to watch over him and keep an eye on the ball…

Graphic art by Gavin “the linesman” Lines

In my end is my beginning…
~ An exclusive Endeavour interview with writer Russell Lewis ~

DAMIAN: I believe it was Damien Timmer [executive producer and joint managing director of Mammoth Screen, the production company that made Endeavour for ITV] who wanted to set one of the stories within the world of football?

RUSS: Yes, he wanted to do a football story, and with the window inexorably closing, this was the opportunity.

DAMIAN: I think I’ve got the right Lewis when I say that you personally prefer cricket to football?

RUSS: I admire the skill involved in both, but yes it’s cricket for me. However, the passing of the great John Motson stirred up the silt and brought back a rush of memory. Across my earliest years – though I went to a very odd school where we weren’t allowed to play sport – football loomed large. Football experienced through the television rather than the terraces.

So – Saturday afternoon, in deep midwinter, was always commentators in sheepskin car-coats either phoning in the result and match report, else doing a bit to camera with the floodlights on, and behind them the stadium empty but for the sound of some teeny-bopper hit of the day coming over the public address system. The smell of hot Bovril still hanging on the evening damp air. I desperately wanted to invoke some of that, but… regrettably, it lay beyond our reach. But those commentators always looked as if they could have stepped straight out of The Offence – you know. The late great Gerald Sinstadt who left us only lately. Elton Welsby. Hugh Johns. And, I suppose, supreme at the time, the legendary Brian Moore who presented The Big Match on Sunday.

My main man Charlie Caine, we’ve been tight this past half-century and more, and who appeared in Cherubim & Seraphim, wrote to Brian Moore on his retirement, thanking him for his work and saying how much he’d miss him. And damn if Brian Moore didn’t send him the loveliest handwritten letter back – which Charlie’s still got. Yeh – he was special.

But Saturday early evening was all about The Results, and absolute silence had to reign while the old man marked off his Pools coupon. Holy ritual.

So, farewell Motty, and all those football broadcasting giants of yore, and thanks for all the memories. STRIKER was as much a salute to that as to the game itself.

John Motson

DAMIAN: I’m afraid I don’t know much about football – or any sport for that matter – but to use a cricketing term, I think! – I was going to say that Endeavour has had a good innings but that would be such a lazy way for me to broach the subject of this being the final series and I’m sure I can do better – so it’ll keep, for now, at least. Anyway, looking back at STRIKER – the first episode of the last series – and the two of us both having our own memories of the seventies including inflation, looming recession, cost of living, energy crisis and potential rationing or power cuts, industrial action and strikes, and even the possible threat of nuclear war, I was struck by how history repeats itself. In fact, there’s a quote from the American journalist and author, Sydney J. Harris, that I’d love to have made into a sign and nailed to the door of Number 10 Downing Street: ‘History repeats itself, but in such cunning disguise that we never detect the resemblance until the damage is done.’ And, goodness me, what damage they’ve done. I wonder if there’s anything you’d like to leave on the doorstep for the Prime Minister?

RUSS: A ‘Leaving’ card.

DAMIAN: As you wrote series 7, 8 and 9, to what extent did you draw upon your own experience of the early 70s and in dramatically recreating this period, what historical aspects resonated the most as you revisited those memories?

RUSS: Hmm. I hope you’ll forgive me, but at such a distance of time – and those memories being of one’s earliest years – the danger is that one just remembers bits of ‘the early 70s’. We don’t get to some of the strongest memories – the power cuts, etc., which would have been a fantastic backdrop for a story. Oxford in blackout – a call back to Thursday, Win and the Blitz. Put that light out!!! Industrial disputes. We touched on it slightly with the Post Office dispute – but that was certainly ongoing across those early years. To such a degree that it informed Hilda’s vendetta against unionised labour at the other end of the decade.

DAMIAN: Endeavour Morse was arguably at his most morose last series and yet his misery seems to have less to do with the actual turmoil of the 70s and more to do with himself. To what extent would you say that most of his problems originate not from external factors but rather internal factors?

RUSS: Well – he was carrying a lot of grief after the events of 1970. Affairs of the heart ending unhappily… probably carries more weight for a soul than a postal dispute.

DAMIAN: In the past we’ve referred to the first film, OVERTURE, and the successive couple of series at least, as Eden before the fall and an age of innocence. Given that until fairly recently, you didn’t know how long the series would last for, how have you managed to ration or portion the heartache, torment and the general highs and lows of Endeavour’s character arc over nine series?

RUSS: Well – we were already putting the bricks in the wall right from the off. Rosalind [Calloway in OVERTURE]. The death of his father at the end of series one [HOME]. We’ve always been turning the rack – a degree at a time.  

DAMIAN: You see, I knew I could do better – did you notice how expertly and subtly I managed to raise the issue of this being the final series?

RUSS: Say it ain’t so.

DAMIAN: Well, I won’t dwell on it today but rather wanted to reassure the reader that I’ll get to the questions I imagine many fans of the show would like answering in our very last interview. Anyway, is Endeavour’s introspective gloominess the main reason why Joan is open to the possibility of a relationship with someone else?

RUSS: Difficult to talk about in specific terms. But I think that – for many, perhaps for all at one time or another – there’s something true about ‘never the time, the place, and the loved one all together’. For whatever reason, if an affection goes undeclared long enough, that can be interpreted as a lack of interest.

DAMIAN: STRIKER features a beautifully played scene where Strange asks Joan to be his date at the Ladies Dinner Dance at the North Oxford Masonic Lodge and after she agrees, his face is positively beaming. I know it was a long time ago because I remember reading scenes between them in early drafts of various scripts that were cut but when did you first have the idea of Strange becoming attracted to Joan?

RUSS: It was less of a step than one might suspect. And one needs to keep these things in perspective. He needed a dinner date. And I think – because they were acquainted quite well – and have a professional association through their respective rôles at work – that when Strange asked her to help him out, it was born of a practical need rather than a years-long romantic longing. So – we probably shouldn’t read too much into it.

DAMIAN: There’s another lovely scene that I greatly enjoyed in which Endeavour drives to the halfway house for women and their children. As he sees Joan, Endeavour takes a deep breath before getting out of the Jag and she says, ‘Jim came by’, and, not wishing to appear too familiar, corrects herself, ‘Strange’. Endeavour then takes a sip from his hip flask that is seen throughout the film and offers her some but Joan declines and instead puts him in his place. Shortly afterwards, upon realising and appreciating the work that she does in providing sanctuary for vulnerable families, he observes that she’s trying to save the world and it occurred to me that this might just be his highest possible compliment to her because isn’t this exactly what Endeavour has strived to do since the death of his mother?

RUSS: I think – regarding your first point – that she understands after all this time that Endeavour is so unbending that he might not think of Strange as ‘Jim’ – which is why she adds the surname. Joan is not troubled by the same kind of thinking as Endeavour. And – for us – it just underlines the difference between them. Joan is clear eyed, open, honest about her feelings. There is no romantic involvement, so she wouldn’t think twice about mentioning Strange to Endeavour.  

Your second point, without being specific, is observed behaviour. Again – I think it’s something that would be familiar to many professionals who have dealt with bereaved children.  

DAMIAN: After she smiles and adds that she’s saving the world ‘one woman at a time’, there’s a silence between them as Joan and Endeavour look into each other’s eyes. Was the look supposed to portray regret for their past mistakes or longing for a possible future together regardless of how seemingly impossible that might be?

RUSS: There may have been some changes between the shooting script and what we ended up with. I have a vague recollection of a certain amount of back and forth on it.  But this was my original intention for the scene: Endeavour not in a good place – and this is the first time they’ve met in a long time.

To a degree it’s an example of the impact of real life on story. Mx.Vickers was unavailable for the previous and some of that had to be explained by Joan’s absence – but it creates questions itself. Why did she go to Stevenage? Was it a last roll of the dice? ‘This is what life looks like without me.’ I don’t think she’d reason it through in such terms, she’s too straight-forward for that – but perhaps it played some small part in her thinking. Another year of marching in step in Oxford, or trying something new in Stevenage.

INT. BELMONT LODGE. KITCHEN – DAY 4

ENDEAVOUR alone for a moment. Through the window, JOAN up the garden for the moment with some of the kids. He could be looking out of the window of his own house at his wife and kids. It’s a thought that might have stung once, now it’s just a dull ache. Taking advantage of being unobserved, he hauls a quarter-bottle of rotgut from his raincoat, finds himself a glass and pours out a couple of fingers. And becomes aware of JOAN watching him from the doorway. Rather than shrink from it – he tries to be inclusive.

ENDEAVOUR: Drink?       

JOAN: It’s a bit early for me. And to be honest I’d sooner you didn’t. If you’re going to talk to the kids. It’s just that most of them… have experience of men who reek of booze.

ENDEAVOUR unscrews the lid of his bottle and pours the contents of the glass back inside.

ENDEAVOUR: Well. Waste not, want not.

JOAN: Thanks.

ENDEAVOUR: You never used to be so censorious.

JOAN: You never used to put it away in the middle of the afternoon.

ENDEAVOUR: ‘Put it away?’ What’s next? “I’m going back to mother”? Accusations and recriminations. Like some couple in a bad radio play. We are all petit bourgeois now.

A long moment – in which he regrets his sniping. JOAN wounded and wearied by his sarcasm, but she reaches out all the same.

JOAN: I feel like I missed something.

What could he tell her?

ENDEAVOUR: No.

JOAN: Are you sure?

For a moment, through a chink in the armour, a glimpse of the man who once could stop her heart with a look. But bruised now, and broken past mending by love and grief and fate. 

ENDEAVOUR: Well – if you did, it was nothing very much.

JOAN: The ‘mess’ you mentioned when you wrote. Did you manage to put it right.

ENDEAVOUR: Oh, yes. 

He turns away from her to stare down the garden – silvered and shining after rain – so bright it dazzles his eyes and brings them to watering…

ENDEAVOUR: It all… ended as it should. 

JOAN: Morse…

Fearful of where pity might lead, he kills her concern dead. Overly bright and business like.

ENDEAVOUR: So, what is this place? Some sort of halfway house? I don’t know it off the council list.

JOAN: It’s not council. Just somewhere they can get away to. If they need it. Somewhere they can be safe.

ENDEAVOUR: Saving the world?

JOAN: One woman at a time.

ENDEAVOUR: What’s she like – Mrs. O’Rourke?

JOAN: Didn’t Jim say?

ENDEAVOUR: Detective Sergeant Strange has many qualities, but I wouldn’t rank sensitivity paramount amongst them.

JOAN: Oh, I don’t know. In my experience, he can be quite thoughtful when the occasion demands it. 

ENDEAVOUR: In your experience. You want to try living with him.

JOAN: I heard he ended up in hospital. Dad said you saved him.

ENDEAVOUR: No. Not really. I shouldn’t believe all you hear.

JOAN: And poor Mister Bright.

The memory of his failure is a boot to the gut.

ENDEAVOUR: It was a bad year. How was…

JOAN: Stevenage. I thought it might be a new start. But it seems children can be just as miserable and neglected there as they can in Oxford. And with Sam away, I didn’t like to leave Mum. So I came back. 

DAMIAN: You’ve explicitly referenced or alluded to various times of the year, events or holidays such as Bonfire Night (SWAY, S2:E3), Easter (RIDE, S3:E1) and Christmas/New Year (ORACLE, S7: E1 and ZENANA, S7:E3) for example. In the case of the last two, the new year or rather new decade was obviously an important theme but in STRIKER (S8:E1), why was Valentine’s Day referenced but never developed into the main story or integrated with any of the main character plots – was something cut or lost along the way or was it simply that there was so much going on politically and socially around February of that year?

RUSS: I think it was just a colour. Valentine’s Day then was not the awful tyranny it’s become now.

DAMIAN: But like births, funerals and weddings I suppose, Valentine’s Day does offer a vivid backdrop to a story?

RUSS: I always think of the ‘MARRY ME’ card received by Bathsheba Everdene.

DAMIAN: You wrote an episode of Lewis, FALLING DARKNESS (S4:E4), that was set at Hallowe’en but we’ve never seen any trick or treating in Endeavour, is this because it wasn’t such a big thing in the UK back in the sixties and early seventies?

RUSS: Absolutely. Really – next to nobody bothered. Certainly not in my part of the woods.

DAMIAN: I think it was the late seventies or very early eighties when I first remember Hallowe’en creeping its way into my part of the woods. The local newsagent sold some masks, you could sometimes get a pumpkin or at least a turnip from one or two of the markets and, perhaps rather bizarrely, the Catholic Club – next to our Catholic Church which was seen as somewhere reasonably respectable for single, divorced women like my mum and nan to have a Gold Label or two – usually held an event for the kids to dress up. Given my name, appropriately enough, I went as the Devil one year which the Sisters found quite charming if I remember rightly. Anyway, given your fascination with all things macabre, you must have celebrated Hallowe’en in some way yourself as a kid?

RUSS: Again – no. I got a book once – at a school Prizegiving – ‘For Good Behaviour’ or whatever it would have been, ‘Improvement in Tap’. And there was a poem in it about a ‘witch with a wart on her nose’. This was illustrated with a line drawing of the same. I found it  – the poem and the illustration – extremely troubling.  

DAMIAN: Regarding possible influences and inspirations, we’ve often spoken about Edgar Allan Poe in terms of his contribution to the Gothic and horror genre but I don’t think we’ve actually discussed him with respect to his pioneering work in detective fiction which he is often credited with inventing when he wrote The Murders in the Rue Morgue (1841) and, looking back, we can see that this and some of his other work established conventions and tropes such as the eccentric but brilliant sleuth – and his more by-the-book and unimaginative sidekick – solving the seemingly impossible crime and the locked room mystery to name but a few. Since such a significant part of your CV as a writer is working in this genre, I wondered how you rated Poe alongside Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Agatha Christie?

RUSS: It’s funny you should mention Poe. I was thinking about a copy of Tales of Terror and Fantasy – a hardback, illustrated by Rackham with Pit and the Pendulum on the cover that somehow came into my possession at an impressionable age. I’ve been doing a lot of tidying the past couple of months, and I couldn’t put my hand on that book. Hope it’s not lost. Massive influence – in so many ways. The Gold Bug I think probably had a bit of influence on some of Endeavour’s code-breaking/problem solving. Impossible for me to separate from the Corman movies – which, as you know, cast a great shadow.  

But I remember the moment when Dupin reasons back his friend’s train of thought, so that he knows exactly what he’s thinking. And that’s a fantastic bit of work. Rue Morgue… Yeh. And to think some felt I’d gone too far with a Tiger… 

Bela Lugosi and friend in Murders in Rue Morgue

DAMIAN: Leave the tiger, take the gorilla. We’ve discussed the Roger Corman / Vincent Price Poe movies in great detail before and I certainly share your enthusiasm for them but what are your thoughts on the Universal Murders in Rue Morgue (1932) and the other two Karloff and Lugosi Poe films?

RUSS: I remember finding The Black Cat very heavy going. Perhaps I should give it another go. The Raven is delightfully barking. Morgue is a typically lavish Carl Laemmle production. I’m just a sucker for the old production methods.    

DAMIAN: Me too. Anyway, you’ve been doing this for so long now that I suppose it’s almost instinct or second nature to you, but do you ever catch yourself consciously emulating the tricks used by some of the aforementioned writers, or perhaps even Colin Dexter?

RUSS: No. Not really. Colin and his predecessors and peers have the advantage of it all taking place on the page in words. As I’ve said about The Way Through the Woods – Colin could write ‘Somebody found something which would later prove important’ – or words to that effect on the page, but we would have had to film who that somebody was and at least glimpse or show obscurely what had been found. So – those of us who work in a visual medium have to think in pictures. Also – I could never remember everyone’s tricks.  

DAMIAN: We’ve discussed “Plot Vertigo” before which was a phrase coined by Damien Timmer to describe when a storyline is in danger of becoming a little too confusing for the audience, but I wondered if there was any sort of rule you have regarding what constitutes too many suspects or too few?

RUSS: As many as the budget will allow. That’s a tricky one. It depends on the puzzle. Two feels quite tight. A dozen, probably too many.  

DAMIAN: And what are the key ingredients to a great MacGuffin or red herring?

RUSS: I’m not sure there are key ingredients. And a MacGuffin and a red herring are very different things. A proper red herring is probably something that seems meaningful in one light – but typically turns out not to have a bearing on the central mystery. I quite like red herrings that when unravelled give you something that doesn’t appear to illuminate the puzzle – but considered in another way, explains something else. A good red herring should deliver something – even if it’s only obfuscation. Sorry – that’s very dry. The audience or reader (which, let’s face it, are one and the same thing!) does so much of the work for you. They’re so smart. Underestimate them at your peril.  But given that what we’re about is a certain amount of sleight of hand, a good red herring encourages the audience to make 2+2 make 5.

We were probably much more Golden Age when we began – but the guys weren’t crazy about Christiesque suspects in the drawing room denouements, and didn’t really enjoy declaiming the solution, which is fair enough – so the challenge became increasingly to find other ways of delivering the answer to the puzzle, and one had to dial back on the clueage a bit.

It’s amusing – given that the Knives Out franchise has swung back very much in that Golden Age direction. But there – I think – the tongue is very much in cheek. Nevertheless, they are in a direct line of descent from the Ustinov Poirots. And with Sir Kenneth bringing the little Belgian alive again… the traditional whodunit is in safe hands for another generation or two.

DAMIAN: Another important device which again, could be attributed to Poe, is the unreliable narrator which encourages the reader or viewer to question the motives or psychological state of certain characters and how much of their version of events can be trusted. Obviously misdirection plays an important part of an engaging detective story but to what extent do you think there is a danger of cheating the audience with such tropes? 

RUSS: Oh, I don’t know. I just try to apply the same yardstick I do when I watch anything. Did I have a good time? If the answer is yes – then, it’s job done.

DAMIAN: Didn’t you once tell me that you wanted to do a locked room mystery for Endeavour?

RUSS: There was a wheeze I fancied doing in this last series, and had it been four, rather than three films I would definitely have gone there – but I suspect there would have been massive push back against it, as it was so outré. I was keen to have a go at a two-hander with just the boys. Something that drew on the great stage thrillers of the time.  Sleuth was in the cinemas, so… I visited the house where the exteriors were filmed.  Wonderful place. Delightful series of interlinked gardens. They also shot some Doctor Who there. But pottering round where Olivier and Michael Caine had trod half a century before was a pure delight, and just made me regret not pushing for our own little two-hander all the more.

An Endeavour without any onscreen suspects at all! Oxford’s Finest exploring a murderous Count Yorga style fun-house could have given full rein to a ‘locked room mystery’ in the Golden Age Style. But there we are. It might have been too much.

We’d also talked over the years of a murder taking place during an Am-Dram production of a creaky murder-mystery.  A kind of Linda Snell’s Christmas Panto meets Knives Out. But perhaps it’s just as well we stopped short given See How They Run.

Those and our version of Promised Land… Defeated by the fallout from 2016 in the main. Ah – the ones that got away.  

DAMIAN: My fault as usual but I fear we may have veered off on one of our infamous tangents so we’d better return to STRIKER. During the opening and throughout the credits, we hear the song, Won’t Get Fooled Again, by The Who. Was this something you wanted to use and, if so, which particular lyrics did you think accentuated the motifs of either the episode or series eight generally?

RUSS: It’s long been a favourite. I suppose it chimed a bit with the industrial unrest.  ‘Meet the new boss…’  

DAMIAN: I know how important the use of music is to both you and Matthew Slater [composer and conductor since series three] and having collaborated on original songs together, how do the two of you decide on what existing music to play as opposed to creating yourselves?

RUSS: Unless there’s something I’m specifically keen on, it’s best left to those that know their business.

DAMIAN: STRIKER features the appearance of Eamonn Andrews – played exceptionally well by Lewis Mcleod – in a scene where Jack Swift is surprised with the big red book. Was the genesis of this idea inspired by the This Is Your Life episode devoted to John Thaw at all?

RUSS: No. It drew very heavily on the George Best episode. Lewis was fantastic. He has Eamonned before, of course, in the Hattie biopic. So – he was obviously the go-to guy.   

DAMIAN: Both Thursday and Bright observe that Eamonn Andrews isn’t as tall as he looks on the telly, was this a joke based on something I’m not aware of or simply an observation of the sort of banal comments people often might make when they meet a celebrity?

RUSS: A bit. There’s a moment in one of the introductions to a Collection of Alan Bennett plays. Bennett is on location – I think at the seaside, so it’s possibly for One Fine Day or All Day on the Sands – and he gets talking to a stranger on a bench on the seafront. It turns out the stranger was once the batman (in the military sense!) to Montgomery of Alamein.

Expecting some incredible insight from one who knew the great man so intimately, Bennett asks, ‘What was he like?’ ‘Very smart,’ comes the reply.

So – it was inspired by that exchange. And I think then – particularly – ‘people off the telly’ did feel more removed, as if they existed or came from some other dimension. It may also have been a bit of my own surprise, having imagined Eamonn to have been a bit of a unit, sort of prize-fighter build, only to discover on closer inspection that he wasn’t.

DAMIAN: You met Eamonn Andrews?

RUSS: I have a vague recollection of doing so – but I can’t recall if it was when I was very small, or in my salad days. I spent time at Thames – which, as Magpie viewers will recall from sending in their milk bottle tops for the ‘Appeal’, was at Teddington Lock. And Eamonn was just the sort of cove one would see pottering about. I think that’s what struck with me. He was quite striking – facially. And I’ve a distant memory of being struck by the fact that he was wearing ‘powder’. It must have been when I was small. 

I do remember seeing Eric and Ern there. I’d’ve been about sixteen, I think. And Benny Hill. One of the joys of the old regional franchise studio system was you’d see all your TV favourites in the corridors or in the canteen. I loved the centralisation of that. All that talent under one roof. Just getting on with the work. Thames. ATV Birmingham and Elstree. Yorkshire. Anglia. And TVC, of course. CEEFAX or ORACLE bubbling away in the corner of Reception. It does rather make the heart ache. A visit to any of those places – for an interview, or if you were in studio… one took it for granted, I suppose, but nevertheless, one always set off with an extra spring in one’s step on those bright mornings. We were very lucky to have lived and worked through such a time.

DAMIAN: Possibly a rather banal comment of my own now but Anton Lesser’s hair seemed to be uncharacteristically long this series, was this because he was flitting between Oxford and a galaxy far, far away?

RUSS: I think Bright’s self-care has probably taken a knock. But yes – it probably owes more than a little to his extracurricular duties.

Anton in Star Wars: Andor

DAMIAN: In the final scene of STRIKER, Endeavour and Thursday discuss the case and contemplate the nature and motives of crime and those who commit them: ‘Maybe we’re as much what we hate as what we love’, Thursday says and then continues, ‘In the end, we all pick a team. Or a team picks you.’ Endeavour adds, ‘Not if you’re no good at sports. I was always the last to be chosen. The one neither side wanted in the team’ to which his friend and mentor replies, ‘I chose you’. Given the desperate condition of their relationship in the series and last episode preceding STRIKER, was this a deliberate attempt to end the film on a more optimistic tone regarding their future?

RUSS: I have often been encouraged to keep that central relationship in better repair.  The audience – and a good number of the Top Table – don’t like them to be at constant loggerheads.

DAMIAN: What can we look forward to in PRELUDE, the first film in the very final series of Endeavour set in 1972?

RUSS: It’s another request from the Upstairs. The world in which it’s set. Matt Slater got to have some fun with it. There’s a bit of a time jump from where we left Endeavour at the end of the last run – again, dictated by production schedule. Delightful guest cast who all entered into the spirit of a Zoom Readthrough with gusto.

I think – left to my own devices – I would have run one story across the last three films. But the imperative was still to deliver distinct stand-alone cases. However, hares are certainly set running in this opener. So…

Can’t say more. Need to know, old man. Need to know.

DAMIAN: Of course, but 1972 was a good year for cinema with The Godfather, The Getaway, The Candidate, Deliverance, The Poseidon Adventure and Frenzy to name but a few. Any of these appear on your mood board at any point for this series?

RUSS: The Godfather a little – but only in its ambition. Turning Castle Gate upside down in the style of Irwin Allen lay beyond our budget. We’ve sort of nodded to Bob Rusk elsewhere. There’s one that dropped in the US late in 1971, but which was released in ‘72 in the UK that had some cultural significance – so that felt fair game, and gets a look in.  

DAMIAN: I thought we might do our next interview on a Wednesday. I’ll bring the sandwiches this time – do you fancy anything in particular?

RUSS: Just make it something special.

~

Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2023