An exclusive Endeavour interview with writer/deviser/executive producer Russell Lewis

^{Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2021}

Here we are again. Finally. At last.

We left Morse, Thursday and the rest of Oxford’s finest back in 1970. The world has obviously seen many changes in the intervening decades. And yet, the world has perhaps become even more different from the one in which the last episode of Endeavour was broadcast in February 2020.

So, given the uncertain times in which we now live, we may well find ourselves taking comfort from the past as we share a cup of kindness and remember old friends.

DAMIAN: Russ, how’s your memory?

RUSS: Unreliable.

DAMIAN: Well, as always, we’ll discuss the previous series – specifically ORACLE (S7:E1) in this first part of the interview – before offering a brief preview of the new one. So, let’s remind ourselves of how the seventh series began: It’s New Year’s Eve; Endeavour meets a mysterious and alluring brunette at a Venice opera house, while back at Oxford, Mr and Mrs Thursday leave a working men’s club in favour of seeing in the new year at home in front of the television from which the singing of “Auld Lang Syne” can be heard, and elsewhere, a woman is brutally murdered on a canal towpath. Russ, I don’t know if it’s opera, working men’s clubs, a quiet night at home in front of the TV, or maybe even a midnight stroll alongside a moonlit canal, but how do you usually like to celebrate New Year’s Eve?

RUSS: Quietly to the point of not at all. Early night, ideally. It’s funny, isn’t it, the things you remember. The mysteries of the world. I remember thinking when I first heard about them that ‘resolutions’ were some sort of quasi-religious thing. Probably because we were a godless bunch of heathens in our house, and with New Year falling so close upon Christmas the child’s mind somehow conflates the two as both somehow having something to do with the baby Jebus. I imagined, I think, for some years that there might be a bolt of lightning which would smite one, or demons would drag one off to the fiery basement if one broke one’s resolutions, which all seemed to involve abstention or self-denial of one form or another. The question usually being ‘What are you giving up for New Year?’ — Like some Pagan Lent. As a small kid what are you going to give up? Booze? Fags? Matchbox cars?

I always knew the jig was up though when Andy Stewart rolled around. That was it. There wouldn’t be anything worth watching after that. The ‘Big Film’ was done by ten-ish. Then it was kilts and accordions until first footing and stories of taking lumps of coal around to people’s houses ‘for luck.’ Absolute madness.

There’s an enforced ‘New start’ thing about it all that I find deeply resistable. The slate wiped clean. A second chance. Absolution and redemption arising from what exactly? It’s not a solstice or an equinox – which I can understand as a marker for something — but just an arbitrary date.

DAMIAN: [Note to self, never invite Russ to a New Year’s Eve party] I think it was SWAY (S2:E3) that you originally hoped to set at Christmas but your plans were thwarted, is ORACLE and the scenes in ZENANA (S7:E3) therefore the closest we’re likely to get to seeing a proper Endeavour festive episode?

RUSS: ICARUS (S5:E6) was also originally set at Christmas or in the run up to it.

DAMIAN: Back in the good old days of the first few series at least – the age of innocence, Eden before the fall and all that when Endeavour and Thursday were still chums and would go to the pub together and discuss sandwiches – would Thursday have invited Endeavour to Christmas dinner?

RUSS: I could swear I’ve written a scene where Win invited Endeavour to Christmas lunch.

DAMIAN: And would the Thursday family have turkey for Christmas dinner and, if so, might Win use the leftovers for sandwiches and disrupt the well-established cycle?

RUSS: Of course they’d have turkey. They’re not the Cratchits.

DAMIAN: Of course, we STILL don’t know what Thursday has for lunch on a Wednesday! Haven’t you created a problem for yourself here because the fans will be greatly disappointed if they never find out, and yet, the revelation is surely doomed to be anticlimactic after such a wait unless it’s something surprising or shocking like ortolan?

RUSS: Wasn’t it ortolan that formed the central delicacy in Mitterand’s last meal before he died. Some say of shame — as the joke has it. The only time you’d ever be likely to see Thursday bent over a bowl with a towel over his head would be when he was self medicating ‘a chest’ with Vicks in boiling water!

DAMIAN: What came first, the idea to begin series seven on New Year’s Eve or in Venice?

RUSS: New Year’s Eve — definitely. New decade.  

DAMIAN: Have you ever visited Venice?

RUSS: Only on celluloid. When there’s a break I mean to go by train.

DAMIAN: But you’ve visited Dorset?

RUSS: Mmm. Um — well, I’d thought it might be interesting and rewarding to shadow the events of the opera with our unfolding story for Endeavour — so that’s where it started.  The doomed lovers. The jealous “husband”. Lots of ‘misunderstandings’ in opera — but we could only really feather it in — we couldn’t present a whole opera, so we just created key scenes and arias. I say we — I did the English libretto, which Nicolo translated into ‘old Italian’, saving my ignorant blushes in so many ways, and Matt just knocked it out of the park, as he always does, with his incredible setting. We agreed beforehand on the period — so he had this mad challenge of writing something credibly baroque. He wrote so much music. Half an hour or thereabouts — just for those few opera moments onscreen. But if a thing’s worth doing… There’s a possibility that he and Nico might complete the thing and present it in concert in Italy – which would be incredible.

DAMIAN: How did you decide on the name, Violetta Talenti?

RUSS: Talenti came late — out of necessity and what would clear Compliance. But she was always Violetta. Doomed heroine. La Traviata. 

DAMIAN: I know from our previous interviews that you’ll often find inspiration from the characters you saw in films as a kid such as the influence of Joyce Grenfell in the first three of the St. Trinian’s series (1954 – 60), Shirley Eaton in various roles including Carry On Nurse (1959) and Sue Lloyd in The Ipcress File (1965) which all contributed to the creation of Trewlove. How did Violetta look in your mind’s eye as you created the character and was there a particular image – or vision! – that inspired you?

RUSS: Well, I’d be lying if I said La Cardinale wasn’t in there somewhere. As the Princess in The Pink Panther, perhaps.  A hint of Domino Vitale, I guess.

DAMIAN: I’ve asked you similar questions before regarding some of the main male characters and you told me it’s difficult to describe a process that is so instinctive and done without analysis – something of a dissociated mental state where the dark passenger slips behind the wheel – but I still can’t help but wonder what Violetta’s voice sounded like in your mind’s ear as you typed her dialogue?

RUSS: Ever soft and low. I sort of had a joke in my head that she might sound like Dickie Greenleaf’s lover in much missed Anthony Minghella’s The Talented Mister Ripley — ‘Deeeeeki.  Deeeeeki Greenleaf.’  Crossed with Appolonia Vitelli – Michael Corleone’s Sicilian wife… [in The Godfather] the scene with the car where she’s showing her fluency in English by practising the days of the week, ‘Maaandi, Chewsdi, Wehnsdi…’ &c. But in all seriousness – I was hoping for something… cosmopolitan.  

DAMIAN: Given the possible echoes of Jack the Ripper, Hammer Horror and the Gothic genre more generally in this episode, I thought it was interesting that Stephanie Leonidas – who played Violetta – also appeared in Whitechapel (2009-13) and Dracula (2006). Anyway, I thought she did a marvellous job and had that inherent vamp or femme fatale quality about her.

RUSS: Yes — again, she had to make a big impression with relatively little screen time — so every moment had to count.

DAMIAN: I suppose you already had at least an impression of some of the voices of the female actors such as Abigail Thaw before you created their characters in Endeavour but I wonder if you now hear the voice of someone like Sara Vickers as you write dialogue for Joan or the sound you originally envisioned before that part was cast?

RUSS: Yes, absolutely. I now see/hear all the regular characters as those who give them such vivid life. But I guess it was the speech pattern for each of them that came first, and has been refined the more I’ve written them.

DAMIAN: Do you think that you would have still run with the Violetta character and storyline if Joan hadn’t been away on “secondment”?

RUSS: That’s a great question. Any change as great as being robbed of Sara V., is going to have a massive effect on the story we tell. So many choices that we’re obliged to make are as a result of things which are nothing to do with the story — location goes down, or has to change, or something’s simply beyond our budget to realise as well as we’d like, but artiste availability is without doubt a huge influence. And it’s got tougher with each series. Serves us right for having such a fantastic cast. But yes — one has to ‘write around’ absences. You might just have an actor for three days across two films — and those three days might have to be together. So you find a way that one or two of those three days fall at the end of the schedule for one film, and bring forward a one or two from the following film’s schedule to roll over after the end of the previous film — a time when crew are typically catching their breath. We’ve just done so on this series. But it’s all a juggling act for every department at every level. It’s possible that it would have been a very different series if Sara V., had been available.

DAMIAN: You’ve told me on more than one occasion that you’re deeply invested in Joan’s journey and so I was wondering if you have attempted to compensate for her absence last time and tried to put whatever character development and storylines you had originally planned for both ‘70 and ‘71 into the new series?

RUSS: I don’t know about compensate. I love writing for Sara. Loved what she did with Joan right from the off. She’s a fantastically sensitive and thoughtful actor. Everything you care about with Joan, you care about because of Sara. Her extraordinary skill and talent. She has to do and convey so much with great economy. But, yes — I am deeply invested in Joan’s character and story. I’ve loved what we’ve been able to do with her. It feels like she’s been on a long and often painful journey of self-discovery.

DAMIAN: Both in terms of the characters and the actors who play them, Sara Vickers and Stephanie Leonidas could hardly be more different. In many ways, Violetta is obviously typical of someone that Endeavour finds himself attracted to – frequently vulnerable, dangerous or doomed and almost always unobtainable – and while Joan is often vulnerable too, she’s also inherently good, kind and someone who could offer Endeavour comfort and stability. So in terms of the characters he’s attracted to, I don’t know whether this makes any sense at all or if it makes absolute perfect sense?

RUSS: Emotionally, at least, he is drawn to self-destruction. He’s a romantic, for whom love has to be indistinguishable from suffering. Small wonder given his personal history. Arrested development. He is forever reaching for the perfect/idealised woman — because the woman he idealised escaped him when he was twelve. So – one might argue, he sets his heart upon the unattainable, because there is comfort in the predictability of disappointment.  

DAMIAN: I obviously understand that he’s had a belly full of blood and guts but was Thursday buying a couple of canaries a metaphor for both his children having flown the nest as he tells Win they are a pair – a cock and a hen – and says, ‘we might get some chicks.’?

RUSS: Write what you know. It was from life. For some years as a kid, I shared an attic with my old man’s canaries. Early risers.  

DAMIAN: Win is not very happy about the birds and asks him where they are going to be kept to which Thursday replies, ‘Up my arse, Winifred. That’s where we’re gonna keep them. Up my arse. Like David Nixon.’ I laughed when I first watched this scene but then almost immediately felt guilty when I saw the reaction shot of Win looking hurt. However, when I rewatched it, I laughed again and thought she was a bit of an old nag for moaning about the mess of feathers and suchlike but I’m still divided about it. Whose side are you on?

RUSS: I can see both sides. Which is probably how we got into this mess.

DAMIAN: With Jack Bannon spending most of his time in Gotham City just lately, how likely is it that we’ll ever see Sam Thursday again?

RUSS: Jack’s #TeamEndeavour always.

DAMIAN: I remember magicians like Tommy Cooper and Paul Daniels but I had to google David Nixon, is he someone you remember hiding birds in astonishing places during your own childhood?

RUSS: He was a regular Light Entertainment fixture. Often ‘assisted’ by Anita Harris, if memory serves. As a kid he’d tip up on variety shows — and then had his own series on Thames that went out sort of midweek around 5.15. I didn’t have the patience for the show as a boy. Probably because it betokened the end of kids TV and the news on next, before the wretched Today. I’ve always found that post-news, magazine programme slot depressing beyond tablets.

DAMIAN: As always, there’s a plethora of other cultural references or nods – I think you call them wee nodettes – but I fear it would be very tedious for you to confirm or deny every single one of them so I’m just going to ask about a few of my favourite possibilities. Was the whistling suspect a reference to Peter Lorre’s serial killer character, Hans Beckert, in Fritz Lang’s M (1931)?

RUSS: As much ‘Molly Malone’ from The Premature Burial – to be honest.

DAMIAN: You use the words ‘my kind of girl’ or something very similar and Doctor Blish uses a tie in a strangulation attempt. In addition to most Hitchcock films, I’m crazy about Frenzy (1972) which features Barry Foster as Bob Rusk who says ‘you’re my type of woman’ or ‘girl’ throughout the film before strangling them with his tie so I was wondering if this was another wee nodette?

RUSS: Yes, Frenzy’s hard to ignore at the top of the 70s, isn’t it? I think one has to set Frenzy in the aspic of its times, and contextualise it through Hitchcock’s… particular interests. There’s much I like about it — and much I find ugly and repellent. There are moments of great discomfort for the viewer, I think. The older I get, the harder I find some of it to watch. I love the travelogue of it. My very dear friend Paul Tropea, with whom I first started writing, worked on it as a kid — I think, the discovery of the body floating in the Thames — and saw Mr Hitchcock. So… Six Degrees of Separation.

DAMIAN: From the opening montage featuring a barmaid pursued by a menacing unseen presence along the canal, the inserts of a full moon, rats, cats and ravens, to the final shot of a Jack the Ripper-esque figure brandishing a cane-sword and fleeing the scene of the murder with his cloak – or at least longcoat – flapping in the wind, wasn’t ORACLE a little more Gothic than we’ve seen in Oxford for a while?

RUSS: Yes. I was reaching a bit for that rather odd vibe of Dracula A.D.1972 and The Satanic Rites of Dracula – when Hammer brought the Count into the modern age with varying degrees of success. I do like those films, but perhaps more for their 70s’ aesthetic than anything else.  Scream and Scream Again and the AIP Count Yorga pictures were also in the mix. Which is probably a bit at odds with the gothic you’re referring to. We were very consciously referencing the predatory framing, subjective angle of that ‘damsel in distress’/’next victim’ thing in the Hammers. Not quite pastiche — but we were trying to utilise the same visual grammar. Because the whole Towpath Killer story was an extension of that possibly unintended message by the film makers. The threat – euphemistically portrayed as vampirism – is, of course, implicitly sexual. Attractive young woman on lonely towpath… It felt very much of its, ‘well, she’s only got herself to blame’ time. Do you know what I mean? An overt distillation of a lot of things the Women’s Conference was pushing back against. The Patriarchy, innit?

DAMIAN: Indeed, the only thing missing was Michael Ripper as the landlord…

RUSS: Yes, indeed. He’s been a constant reference point across the years.

DAMIAN: And finally with reference to Rippers, aspects of the plot obviously reminded me of the Victorian spiritualist and medium, Robert James Lees, who was alleged to have psychically identified Jack the Ripper. I wonder if you believe in the possibility of such mystic powers and paranormal phenomena?

RUSS: Ah, Robert James Lees. Played by Donald Sutherland in a great favourite of mine – Murder By Decree (1979) – which has just been issued on Blu-Ray – featuring the late, great Christopher Plummer as Holmes and James Mason at Watson — as they go after Jack the Ripper. It’s heavily influenced by Stephen Knight’s The Final Solution – which has now been much discredited. Alan Moore’s From Hell leans into that particular scenario quite heavily too, if I remember correctly.

RUSS: I won’t be telling a scholar of Ripper Street and all pertaining to it such as yourself anything, but recently we have had two terrific pieces of work that look at the events of 1888 in a new light — Hallie Rubenhold’s truly wonderful Five Women and Bruce Robinson’s spectacular They All Love Jack. Each book is fuelled by a righteous anger, and neither ever loses sight of the human tragedy at the heart of what has grown over the past hundred and forty years into ‘an industry’.

I suppose movies such as Murder By Decree fall into that ‘industry’ — but like those two books, there’s an anger and a humanity about Holmes – a fury at what has been done to the women in the story – that burns up the screen.  

So — Lees. Dramatically, I think psychics and mediums are very useful characters to have at one’s disposal. Do I believe it?  ‘Today will be a Sunday for most Virgos.’

DAMIAN: And we have Mrs Bright who is hoping that faith healers will help with her cancer which later leads to a beautifully understated scene between Mr Bright and Thursday where they have a brief philosophical discussion about faith and although both seem sceptical, neither obviously says so. In terms of dealing with difficult problems and situations which are beyond their control, would you say there might be a parallel between Mrs Bright turning to faith healing and Thursday buying a pair of canaries?

RUSS: I had a lot of experience of faith healers visiting the house for the ‘laying on of hands’ when I was very small. For a while it felt like they were always there. I found them sinister. A bunch of strange men — and they were always exclusively men — visiting. So – no, not for me. Mrs Bright..? Well — one would imagine pain, fear and desperation might lead any of us to reach for deliverance. By whatever means. No atheists in the foxhole. 

I think Thursday understands that. And he’s open minded enough to imagine that – for all his reservations – there may be ‘more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy…’ He can also see that Bright is clinging to hope — and Thursday would be the last person to take that from a soul.

The canaries… He was reaching for beauty and innocence. A simpler time. His version, I suppose, of Max’s ‘something has to be lovely’.

DAMIAN: Well let’s turn to the subject of feminism. Was this something you were really keen to explore at this particular stage of the series – 1970 – or was it the coincidental fact that a National Women’s Liberation Conference really did take place at Oxford’s Ruskin College in the same year or the even happier coincidence that one of the organisers of this event, Sally Alexander, was actually John Thaw’s first wife and the mother of Abigail Thaw?

RUSS: Yes, it was. It was kind of key to all we were doing, really. On the one hand you’ve got this wicked individual on the towpath doing what he’s doing — and on the other you’ve got women organising. Sisters very much doing it for themselves.

DAMIAN: Did you come up with the idea of having Abigail’s daughter, Molly-Mae Whitmey, cameo as her own grandmother?

RUSS: It certainly wouldn’t have been me who broached it — I’m far too shy. Fools rush in. &c., and I’m terribly aware of rifling through people’s lives and memories. I probably felt I was already pushing my luck in touching on it at all, but when one’s dealing with those whose loved ones literally created history and you want to cover that history because it’s hugely important… I see no ships. But everyone was delightful and enthusiastic about the conceit, and I was delighted we got to do it.

DAMIAN: Do you think John would have chuckled at this?

RUSS: Possibly. But we’d probably be missing the point of that first Women’s Conference by several country miles if we wondered too loudly about John’s reaction to what we’ve done.

DAMIAN: I thought it was a very lovely touch. Anyway, I think the only thing that I wasn’t sure about in this film was when Endeavour gives away his rare test pressing of the Calloway ‘54 Traviata from La Scala to Ludo. Has Endeavour really not listened to it for years, and even if that’s the case, wouldn’t it be even more precious to him given his signed Calloway record from the first film was stolen?

RUSS: I fancy — being a test pressing – that the quality might not have been too terrific.

DAMIAN: He might be too stingy to buy you a pint but he’ll happily give away priceless rare records and travel to fancy places like Venice, has Endeavor won the pools?

RUSS: I think it reflected Endeavour’s overwhelming loneliness and a need for a friend.  He does tend to go ‘all in.’ Joyce notwithstanding, there’s a bit of ‘only child’ about that impulse. The same with women, too. He falls fast and hard. The dam breaks – and whomever is the object of his interest has to bear the weight of all that has been penned up behind the wall for so long. Too much for some. Too much for most, one would imagine.

DAMIAN: During the murder enquiries, Strange gets a statement from the producer of the Higher Maths Module TV programme and says he was ‘Quite flamboyant, as is often the way with these people.’ Are television producers quite flamboyant, do you think?

RUSS: A Strange euphemism. Period ‘code’ for those who are ‘not as other men.’

DAMIAN: What about executive producers?

RUSS: Oh, certainly. Some more than others.

DAMIAN: Once again, series seven had a strong story arc as opposed to the more stand-alone and episodic nature of early Endeavour episodes and, of course, both the original Inspector Morse and Lewis. I personally favour this approach but is it also something you prefer or is there a particular demand from ITV, Mammoth Screen or Shaun and Roger?

RUSS: Going for a strong series arc was an attempt to deal with Shaun and Rog wanting to do a shorter run of three films. I think the developing crime story was a lot for people to keep in their head from week to week, but I very much didn’t want to do a ‘Previously on Endeavour’ recap ahead of each film’s overture.

DAMIAN: Last time we spoke I asked to what extent your vision for series eight might need to be adapted because of the delay in filming and you said it wasn’t 100% clear at that point (August 2020). Have you managed to keep to your original design or were there significant revisions along the way?

RUSS: We were a bit battered by Wartime Conditions. Who wasn’t? I mean — clearly we weren’t frontline health workers — praise them with great praise – but technically what we could achieve and realize on screen for the audience was impacted. So – we had to find new ways of doing things, and think our way around sundry physical problems.  What we were going for would have been a challenge in any normal year — but given what we were up against in terms of changed working practises, they were probably ten times as challenging. We did our best to make sure you can’t see the join, as it were — but, I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t tricky. I’ll clue you in to some of the workarounds further down the road.

DAMIAN: You also said that Endeavour was in a good place in terms of the stories and if you got it right, series eight could be the strongest run yet! Well, I’m bound to ask, did you get it right?

RUSS: Um — not for me to judge.  “Man’s reach, Thursday…” But really – who knows?  

DAMIAN: What can you tell us about the first film of series eight, STRIKER?

RUSS: Typically, as little as possible. It will all be there in the listings. Damien Timmer [executive producer/joint-managing director of Mammoth Screen] has wanted to touch on the beautiful game for a long time, and with our opportunities to do so diminishing, it felt like now or never. It’s funny — a whole bunch of things just seemed to line up for us in terms of this particular week in history, most of which we managed to fold into the story.

DAMIAN: And finally, as I always do, can I also ask what you personally remember from the year in question and what such social, political or cultural influences might have found their way into this series?

RUSS: Strange what one recalls, but I remember very clearly being at Shepperton Studios in the summer of ‘71 and a radio blaring out ‘Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep’ by Middle of the Road.  “Where’s your mamma gone?” which brings us back to Endeavour…

^{Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2021}