^{Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2021}

DAMIAN: Sara, I think I speak for many fans of Endeavour when I say that you were really missed during Joan’s secondment. How are you doing?

SARA: I’m doing really well. Life has changed a bit since we last spoke. I now have a little boy. He’s just turned two, full of fun and giggles and I couldn’t be prouder to be his mummy. I certainly missed my Endeavour family. Especially as I went overdue and was sat at home twiddling my thumbs while episode one was getting underway! But everyone sent lots of well wishes and they were always checking up to see how things were progressing.

DAMIAN: Did you still watch the last series even though you didn’t appear, and if so, how did it feel not to have been a part of it?

SARA: Hell yes! Wouldn’t have missed it. I actually loved not knowing the story, I got the full audience experience. It was definitely weird not to have been a part of it but it was heart warming to see her mentioned throughout the series. I guess the Thursdays are just integral to the fabric of the show.

DAMIAN: Dare I ask what you thought of the Violetta Talenti character?

SARA: I thought she was beautifully portrayed by Stephanie Leonidas. Sassy, untamed and passionate. Endeavour certainly had his hands full. I think she fulfilled his desire for something out of the ordinary. The dangerous, passionate affairs that rarely end well.

DAMIAN: I certainly had much more sympathy for Violetta than Claudine from series five who I didn’t like at all. What are your thoughts about her?

SARA: I guess Claudine had a coolness about her. An air of sophistication that was a good match for Morse’s intellect. But she was clearly more ambitious about her work than her affair with Endeavour. I think perhaps Claudine didn’t capture your sympathy as her motives remained a little more of an enigma. Perhaps she fell victim to the fact that this is primarily a detective show so not all of the characters get the airtime to flesh out the whys of their actions.

DAMIAN: It’s frustrating because we’ll never know for sure but to what extent do you think series seven might have turned out very differently had Joan stuck around?

SARA: That’s an interesting one. I reckon Jim and Joan’s Masonic ball may have made an earlier appearance and perhaps we may have seen the repercussions of that by now? But your guess is as good as mine.

SARA: Russ said he had plans for more political activism, women’s rights in particular. Also, perhaps the Morse and Violetta storyline wouldn’t have been able to grow and progress to the extent it did had Joan been on the scene. She may have muddied the waters a little. Her absence definitely gave Russ license to let Endeavour wander in a different direction.

DAMIAN: Over the last two weeks I’ve been posting my interviews with Russ and I was absolutely astonished that so many people on Twitter were commenting and coming up with their own theories about why Endeavour treats Joan the way he does. Isn’t it a wonderful testament to Russ’ writing and your performance that people care so deeply about Joan?

SARA: I am always so thrilled when people are rooting for Joan. I know people weren’t best pleased when she ran away from home. But hopefully she has made amends. When people empathise with her I feel like I’ve done my job, they get her. It’s not something you can set out to achieve, but if Russ and I have managed to get the audience to care, that’s the biggest achievement.

DAMIAN: I think that one of the reasons Endeavour is such a great show is undoubtedly because Russ cares so much about all the characters and not just Endeavour and Thursday. Furthermore – wonderfully tender-hearted and magnanimous man that he is – Russ has said to me on numerous occasions that he is deeply invested in Joan’s journey but when I asked him about the character’s absence, it was obvious that he also cares deeply about the actors as well when he replied with the following:

‘I love writing for Sara. Loved what she did with Joan right from the off. She’s a fantastically sensitive and thoughtful actor. Everything you care about with Joan, you care about because of Sara. Her extraordinary skill and talent. She has to do and convey so much with great economy. But, yes — I am deeply invested in Joan’s character and story. I’ve loved what we’ve been able to do with her. It feels like she’s been on a long and often painful journey of self-discovery.’

DAMIAN: Isn’t that a lovely thing of Russ to say?

SARA: It’s so nice to hear this. Russ has written so many wonderful twists and turns into Joan’s life since we first met her. I think he hits the nail on the head with ‘painful journey of self-discovery’. She hasn’t had it easy. She’s had to navigate her way through a myriad of challenges and has still – just about – managed to find her feet.

DAMIAN: I also thought it was an excellent point that Russ makes about economy because the show is a detective series at the end of the day as you’ve said and so – rather regrettably at times – there isn’t always the room to explore all the psychology and motivation of each and every character. Therefore, I wondered if you were ever aware of this on set or felt an added pressure that you have to emote so much with relatively little screen time?

SARA: It is always more tricky coming in for smaller sections of filming, that’s the case for any job. The audience don’t spend as much time with Joan as they do Thursday or Endeavour, so you can feel a little pressure to state your case, so to speak. But this is something you actively have to fight against. You can’t give into the pressure of demonstration. Audiences are very astute at picking up characters’ thoughts and feelings even in just a look. It’s important to stay as truthful as possible and trust that what is captured tells the story.

DAMIAN: Again from my recent interviews with Russ, I’ve got another couple of quotes from him that I’d like to hear your opinion on with regards to why his relationships with Susan, Claudine, Violetta, and Joan always seem destined to end so unhappily:

‘Emotionally, at least, he is drawn to self-destruction. He’s a romantic, for whom love has to be indistinguishable from suffering. Small wonder given his personal history. Arrested development. He is forever reaching for the perfect/idealised woman — because the woman he idealised escaped him when he was twelve. So – one might argue, he sets his heart upon the unattainable, because there is comfort in the predictability of disappointment.’

‘Susan was too early. Claudine was never going the distance. Joan… He imagines declaring his feelings for Joan would be in some way being disloyal, and in some respect betraying the trust Thursday and by extension the family have placed in him.’

DAMIAN: What’s your take on this, particularly the bit about Endeavour being disloyal or betraying the trust of the Thursday family?

SARA: I think this is a very interesting reading of the situation and explains a lot. There is definitely an element of not wanting to disappoint and betray. But can you imagine if they did get together? Fred and Win would be delighted, I’m sure. I think for Endeavour, this idea of betrayal is a convenient road block. He can then happily keep travelling down the road of self sabotage.

Russ, Shaun and I had a conversation before filming the new series. We joked about Endeavour and Joan going to get the weekly shop on a Sunday. We weren’t sure we could picture it. And it got me thinking, why? Well, perhaps Endeavour needs his love to be grand and messy. Operatic. Marriages aren’t like operas – thank God! They involve a lot of the mundane. Perhaps he can’t allow himself to give up the drama and the heartache. He could never give Joan the life she would want – marriage, kids – so to go there would always spell disaster.

DAMIAN: I suppose we’re back to the whole ‘if he can’t have her, he must hurt her’ thing that we discussed in our previous interview and as Thursday said of Endeavour at the end of series seven, ‘you look down your nose at everyone’ and ‘nobody’s good enough’. When you and Shaun talk through a scene before a take – particularly perhaps when he’s also directing – are there ever any concerns about making Endeavour just a little bit too mean and unlikable?

SARA: We both welcome the gritty exchanges that they share with each other. It shows things have evolved. Hurting the ones you love and all that. I think Joan knows it’s just another layer of armour, but nevertheless they can be very nasty and condescending. We always hope that in doing a scene that gets a little fiery, people can read the subtext, the hurt and longing. And no one is perfect. I think Shaun likes to embrace the uglier sides of Endeavour.

DAMIAN: Wasn’t it interesting that when he wrote that letter at the end of the last series about proving Ludo was responsible for the “freak accidents” – including, of course, Bright’s wife – that after burning all his bridges with everyone else, Joan was the last and only person Endeavour could turn to?

SARA: I had no idea that was coming. I definitely got a lump in my throat and wanted to scream at the TV, “find her and declare your love!”. It made me think, Joan is his constant. Ever there, ever reliable and would be able to see past whatever difficult situation he found himself. I guess there is a strength in Joan that he feels he is able to lean on when everything else crumbles away. And I feel proud of that deep unshakable relationship we have been forging over the last decade.

DAMIAN: Sara, it’s always lovely to hear your thoughts on Joan – thank you so much.

SARA: A pleasure, as always.

^{Interview copyright © Damian Michael Barcroft 2021}